Author Topic: Living with Alan Maher CBFs  (Read 17032 times)

Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2011, 06:41:14 PM »
Alan and I also exchanged a good bit of email on the subject and, as you say, it always comes down to experimenting.  While I've never heard an explanation that fully satisfied my curiosity, I don't doubt the effect. 

To be honest, this is the first I've heard the bad-before-good approach.  That sounds painful and a bit mid-evil -- like take this medicine and if you don't die in the next 21 days, you'll surely feel better.  But... worth a try next time I feel the nervosa creeping in. 

Offline StereoNut

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2011, 10:16:46 AM »
I've heard (pardon the pun) of the "bad before good" reaction quite a while back as an expected result of a new AMD "install", but what I didn't know until recently (unless I misinterpreted what Alan has told me?) is that every "correct" placement in terms of getting better audio, should go like this.  I wish I would've known that right from the start.  I've been happy with most of my results so far, but.... it's just that I am now second guessing myself on some of what I've done because I didn't get that "bad before good" reaction with everything I tried.  I'm now feeling like I may be missing out on even more performance from Alan's products if I place them better to optimize the results.  It's a matter of having the time (and the guts) to do it "one-piece-at-a-time."  My wife and kids thought I was crazy the first time I went through this process, I can't wait to hear what they'll have to say when I tell them I'm starting over!

Maybe you're right... Nervosa is some sort of medieval torture-test!?!
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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2011, 10:48:02 AM »
So basically, find the spots where my system sounds worst and then leave it there for 3 weeks so that things will improve...   Hmmm, in a convoluted way I guess it makes sense because for a CBF to make things sound worse means it is having an affect.  I just dunno if I can do that without second guessing myself each day thereafter.   It's also relative.   What sounds bad to my ears today will eventually start to sound normal - probably far before 3 weeks are up. 

When I first started with AM stuff, I picked up the Quantum Studio, placed it on my main audio circuit and soon, to my delight, was quite convinced of its merits.  Followed that up with a couple Ref IIs, a Ref III and a PE.  Those required finding optimum placement, and that was a bit of a shot in the dark.  I ended up putting them where I suspected they could do the most good - frig circuit, TV circuit, computer circuit, etc... Well, I thought that did improve things further so I just left them there.  Then came the CBFs... I did try them in several places but was never really convinced (or perhaps never had the patience) to find "best" location (must less 'worst sounding' location).  So I ended up leaving them also in the most obvious locations - on breaker, wrapped to incoming lines into the breaker box, and then strapped in various locations where I thought at the time they helped.

While I doubt I'll change the location of the active AM components, I may just do what Charles did, and yank all the CBFs to give a listen.  Then, with ever most care, seek out locations for the CBFs that makes my system sound worse  (what a sick, sick hobby this can be ;-)

Offline StereoNut

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2011, 11:36:28 AM »
... So basically, find the spots where my system sounds worst and then leave it there for 3 weeks so that things will improve...

If I understood Alan correctly, you will know if an AMD product is properly placed within an hour.  The first 20 minutes to a 1/2 hour for the sound to collapse and sound crummy and another 1/2 hour or so to start to hear the circuit being "tuned" for the better.  The 21 day window is supposed to be a guide for how long it takes to get most (all?) of the audio benefits out of his products. 

It's just very hard to be patient with all of this.  Especially if you have a good handful of his products to experiment with. :roll:
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2011, 06:01:46 AM »
Recent AMD experiences to share...

I bought 3 PE's about a month ago.  My first PE went on my fridge duplex.  It went through it's "bad before good" cycle and has remained there for the past 2 1/2 weeks - so far, so good.  Since then, I tried my 2nd PE on my wife's computer duplex without any "bad before good" happening at all and removed it after 48 hours.  I then moved the 2nd. PE to the power strip of my computer upstairs only to get the same "non-reaction" audio-wise as when it was on the other computer downstairs. :shock: Considering there's supposed to be an audible difference within the first hour of placement, I removed it after 24 hours.

Now here's where things get interesting.  I moved that same 2nd. PE from my upstairs computer to the duplex on my living room TV this past Tuesday evening. (2 nights ago.)  I got to listen to just a handful of songs (15-20 minutes) but there didn't seem to be any immediate changes. Last night (after the PE was in place for about 24 hours) I got to listen again.  Now I got the same results as when I put my first PE on the fridge circuit. Collapsed sound stage, everything congested into the center, vocals very forward and it was obvious that the music was coming from the speakers.  I'm taking for granted that if my system "comes back" sound-wise within the next 3 weeks with this PE in place, it's gonna stay there. 

Then I can start looking for a place to install PE #3.

The adventure continues...
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2011, 08:03:44 AM »
Alan's stuff makes it really tough for someone like me who wants instant gratification  :rofl:

Keep us posted on your progress!

Offline StereoNut

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2011, 04:59:26 AM »
Update:

PE#2 has been in place on my living room TV duplex for 6 days now.  The soundstage on my stereo has come back about 90%, vocals have moved themselves back from sounding "in the front of the stage" to being "on the stage" and the speakers have started to "disappear" again.  There seems to be more detail overall and some "layering" on vocal harmonies that I haven't heard before.  (Yes, I'm still listening to a lot of CS&N for this process.) It seems like this placement will be a "keeper".  I will now have to start thinking about where to try out PE#3.

Any suggestions?

Bill
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

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Offline rollo

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2011, 09:52:54 AM »
  Bill your experience with the PE units is different from what I am doing. Using all CBfs no other AM products.
  Removed the CBF on the circuit breaker for the dedicated line feeding the Amps and Preamp. There was a lose of some air and separation of instruments but but the image is more coherent and focused. never had an issue of the speakers NOT disappearing or any soundstage or imaging issues. That's what the Pipedreams are known for. So for me its all about tonality and harmonic structure.
   What came back was the pop and dynamics I am used to. Having the [2] CBFs on the wire bundle only and inside the duplex box that feeds the dedicated line seems so far to be the ticket. Installing another on the ground line [ thought I had one there but was wrong ].
  Removing the CBFs feeding the line for the CDP and on other receptacles on that line made the biggest change for the good. At first listen I was not happy until I realized the "hype" was gone and the music remained.
   I believe the CBFs highlight or exaggerate some parts of the frequency range in a fake way. Yes at first listen very exciting and grandeur but not real. Too big too much. for me again the Pipes present a soundstage that is life size bigger doesn't help me.
  After the last CBf is removed from the line I will reinstall the CBFs at the circuits again to confirm my findings. The beat goes on.


charles
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2011, 01:46:07 PM »
  Bill your experience with the PE units is different from what I am doing. Using all CBfs no other AM products.

charles

Charles

I realize that CBF's and PE's are different.  The one main difference is that the CBF's are passive and the PE's are active filters. (I'm sure Alan could provide a lot more info. on what other differences there are.)  I just didn't think the PE's deserved their own thread here on AN, so I just "piggy-backed" them onto your CBF thread since they're all AMD products.  I think I mentioned in an earlier post that I have quite a few CBF's myself and was very interested in what the results of your CBF repositioning/removing experiment would be, while I was getting up enough courage to try the same thing!  Besides (especially since we are fellow Audio Syndrome members) I happen to value your opinions a great deal.

The thing is, we really aren't doing anything much different from each other except that I'm still (at least up to this point anyway) experimenting with "original" placement of AMD product vs. your repositioning/replacement.  Bottom line is we're both trying to utilize Alan's products to make our systems sound better, with the common denominator being placement for optimal results.

I'd like to hear from other Audionervosians on their experiences with AMD products, to see if anybody has found other applications that either you or I (or the few others that have commented on this thread) haven't tried out yet.  It doesn't mean that what works for one person's house & system will work for the other, but it may lead to ideas that we wouldn't have thought of on our own.  Ultimately, synergy and personal taste will determine what sounds best to each of us, but it doesn't mean we can't learn from each other.  That's what a forum like AN is all about - right!?!  :thumb:

Does anyone else have any AMD experiences to share?
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Offline rollo

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM »
Bill,
       Just pointing out the difference of what we are doing for the non AM fans. Thanks for all the input. Keep it coming.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2011, 09:48:32 AM »
Bill,
       Just pointing out the difference of what we are doing for the non AM fans. Thanks for all the input. Keep it coming.

charles

There's definitely some differences, but a lot of similarities too.  Very happy to oblige input-wise!  The "Nervosa engine" won't run unless everyone continues to "fuel it" by sharing their experiences and asking relevant questions.  That's what makes this forum such a great place! :thumb:

Bill
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
• N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
• Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
• Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
• T.W.L

Offline tmazz

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2011, 10:03:47 AM »
Bill,
       Just pointing out the difference of what we are doing for the non AM fans. Thanks for all the input. Keep it coming.

charles

There's definitely some differences, but a lot of similarities too.  Very happy to oblige input-wise!  The "Nervosa engine" won't run unless everyone continues to "fuel it" by sharing their experiences and asking relevant questions.  That's what makes this forum such a great place! :thumb:

Bill

And I think these AM devices are the "di-lithium crystals" of Nervosa.  :duh

Hey, maybe that's what's in them.  :rofl:
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2011, 12:11:32 PM »

And I think these AM devices are the "di-lithium crystals" of Nervosa.  :duh
Hey, maybe that's what's in them.  :rofl:

To paraphrase some classic lines from Star Trek...
 (and yes I have taken some creative liberties here, so please no hate mail from Trekkie die-hards)

Capt. Kirk: "Progress, Mr. Scott?"

Scotty: "... I'm doin' the best I can down here, Captain. Don'tcha think if I had more Dilithium crystals we'd be using them!"

Capt. Kirk: "... but Mr. Scott, we need more power!"

Scotty: "Aye, Captain... and if my Grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon!"

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

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Offline rollo

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2011, 12:21:01 PM »
   Someone PLEASE beam me up.



charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
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Offline tmazz

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Re: Living with Alan Maher CBFs
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2011, 04:02:00 PM »
   Someone PLEASE beam me up.



charles

Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables