Merciless or Merciful- System 'Accuracy' vs Listenability

[James Edward]

"Now you can turn all that nervous energy towards something else, like hunting down new music."

I am always on that hunt- and always bagging some new game. I think me and Dennis R from the club are what's keeping the industry afloat. I buy 2-3 CD's a week, some old, some new. I really should post more in the music section of this forum. There are definitely some good sounding new releases, along with some real dogs.

"Hey, when you listed your current system components you did not list the VPI."

I still have the VPI Classic, but truth be told, I don't use it much at all. In fact, I'm thinking of selling it. It has nothing to do with the sound- it sounds great- the best TT I've ever had.
To make a short story long: I much prefer a communal listening environment- my stereo is in the living room, and the room is a suspended wood floor, and when the music gets rocking, along with people, a turntable doesn't cut it. If my system were in my basement, I'd spin a lot more records. Doing the solitary 'audiophile' listening is fine, and the Classic is actually a LOT less susceptible than was my SOTA Comet table.

Thanks for reading...

[rollo]

  Listenability is where its at. A non fatiguing sound that makes the toe tap or the urge to dance. Whatever that means to you then that is the ticket.
  I find today's gear for the most part has strived towards neutrality and has become lean or thin. Overdetailed and or bright as well.
  The gestalt of the music is mostly MIA. The weight, fullness and continuity of live music is what I desire. Not the most accurate and detailed presentation. A linear presentation with no part of the frequency spectrum highlighted.
  Over the years 40+ to be exact many systems have been heard . Really have heard it all. Which is a must. Once " The Sound" you like is experienced then you will really know what you like. nothing like hands on experience. You can get a taste at the shows but until one hears properly setup Maggies with AR or a top SS amp, Vintage Mc Intosh with Quads, A complete MBL system , Audionote SEts with Tannoys, Klipsh with 300Bs amps, Apogees with CJ.
  I've heard most all configurations of the different ways to listen to those classics. Then and then only can one know what they really like. It took me years to find my sound.
  I need two systems for the nervosa. One a 300B based amp driving vintage Tannoys and the Pipedreams driven by a Plinius amp. an intimate system for vocals and jazz and the all out attack for rock, blues and full orchestra.

charles

[Carlman]

..........To make a short story long: I much prefer a communal listening environment- my stereo is in the living room, and the room is a suspended wood floor, and when the music gets rocking, along with people, a turntable doesn't cut it. If my system were in my basement, I'd spin a lot more records. Doing the solitary 'audiophile' listening is fine..............

A LOT of my most memorable and enjoyable listening has been done among friends.  I've had very good moments alone but I really like to share that with someone.. hence this forum.. I think I'm one of very few extroverted audiophiles.

-C

[JLM]

My massive AlNiCo drivers provide the fullness, dare I say warmth, that translates to listenability for me.

Of course I enjoy detail, but the best is what comes from image focus very similar to what you see (or don't).  Sound sources in the recording are smaller, but more distinct.  This of course is a function of the recording, but my monoblocks help.

Certainly a degree of accuracy is need to be listenable.  It's a hoot when you discover new bits of sound, like harpsicord hammers, the bite of strings, or texture from drums.  I recently added a EE DAC and finding hidden treasures in even cheap CDs.     And I just upgraded my Channel Island Audio monoblocks thanks to Agon and even during what seems to be break-in am gaining mid/treble detail and deep bass foundation (like a properly tuned sub, that only presents itself when the music calls for it).   

This is where I'm at on my audio journey and what brings me satisfaction.

[richidoo]

JLM what kind of drivers? Thanks

[_Scotty_]

Since I last posted on this thread I have made several changes to my system. I have a new preamp and power-amp and I have placed Felix power filters on the AC ahead of the front end components and the power amp. The Felix filters were the key to unlocking the increased resolution that new equipment was capable of and they dramatically improved the listenability of the system.
  In the absence of adequate power filtering where it is necessary our impressions of what we may need to do with our systems to make them sound the way we want may be heavily skewed towards dumbing them down to deal with the impact of noise on the AC line.
  I think in many cases people may be able to enjoy much higher resolution than they may have thought they would prefer if they add effective power filtering to their system.

Scotty

[richidoo]

Congrats on the new gear Scotty, and for the felix tip. I still have my original box of felix parts from the group buy that I haven't used yet. I was always afraid that it would limit the power as some power filtering products do. Sounds like I should try it.
Rich

[_Scotty_]

I was also skeptical as hell that a Felix would not result in a squashing of dynamics when used ahead of my 100w/ch SS power amp. I used a 17amp rated JW Miller toroid core inductor with a .008 ohm DCR. Imagine my surprise when there were no ill effects,just much better resolution and lower distortion.
  Scotty

[richidoo]

Can't argue with results!

[AcidJazz]

Give me "merciless" or give me death. 
Yeah, has a nice ring to it. However, what I want right now is about what I got...for this moment in time.

Just to reinforce Scotty's impressions...I am definitely in the 'Felix school' of thought, having incorporate this simple conditioner in all ilks of my system components. Digital components seem to benefit the most and I would dare say is mandatory. SO far every digital component I have auditioned has benefited soundwise with a Felix at the AC front end, be it an amp or source.
The only component in my system that does not seem to benefit behind a Felix is my CAT preamp, at least with all the Felixes I have built to date...20A, 17A, 10A, 5A, 3A...and with varying amount of capacitance.

SO yeah, gimme' what's on the medium, and the ability to fine tune for the tone I want on any given day. 

[opnly bafld]

JLM what kind of drivers? Thanks

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_241_308&products_id=265

[richidoo]

Wow those look nice.... thanks Lin

JLM, you mention you like the fullness. Have you ever tried them with a current source amp? WIth my single drivers current source amp made a huge difference in fullness compared to several voltage amps I used. Those fostex have a very low mechanical Q, so they are perfect for current source amp.

[JLM]

Yes, thanks Lin, those are the "mighty" Fostex F200A AlNiCo drivers (I've had Bud Purvine EnABL mine).  The speakers are Bob Brines FTA-2000 (mass loaded transmission lines) with the zobel/baffle step circuits replaced with a Behringer DEQ2496.  Overall a very easy 90 dB/w/m, 8 ohm load and reaches below 30 Hz.

Sorry Rich for not keeping up on this thread.  No, I've never tried a current amp.  In fact I just upgraded to Channel Island Audio D-100 (100 watt Hypex based digital monoblocks) and love it.  But do tell me more.  (Feel free to PM if you'd like as we seem to be getting off topic.) 

[richidoo]

Here you go JLM
http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/cs-amps-speakers.pdf
http://www.current-drive.info/

My friend Sol Samet designed a nice little chip amp using 3875 for me after hearing the Feastrex remove scalps on a Cary integrated tube amp a couple years ago. He knew it needed a current amp and he was right.  It blew away my 300B tube amps on the single driver, much more fullness, sounded more linear. Basically it gets rid of the shoutyness and megaphone sound that you always get with single driver on voltage amp. But the curent amp has absolutely no damping, so the driver Qm should be low, and the impedance should be flattened with LCR and zobel. All commercial speaker crossovers are voiced for voltage amp, so the current amp can't be used with passive crossover speakers unless the crossover is made for CS amp from the beginning, and it should have a very flat impedance. These are some serious issues to overcome, but current amp is worth hearing. A single driver speaker only really needs a zobel for the treble. You could probably slap something together yourself to try it out. The book is extremely thorough, but you can get the idea from Nelsons article.

[JLM]

Thanks Rich.

I found the first article on my own, unfortunately it didn't include my drivers.  But at 90 dB/w/m and 8 ohms its not what I'd call high efficiency anyway.  Your Feastrex (with a pair of subwoofers) would really sweet.  Had I not already had the FTA-2000 and been a lover of MLTL, they might very well have been my next speakers.

Funny, the amps I just moved from were Channel Island Audio VMB-1 40 watt chip based monoblocks (LM3886, very close to the 3875).  Even with no baffle step/zobel the F200A never sounded shouty or thin (this is not your typical Fostex).  With EnABL mid/treble resolution has improved.  And with DEQ they flat in-room to below 30 Hz.  Right now I'm very satisified, have spent my wad for awhile, and kinda doubt they fall into the camp Nelson had in mind.

Is removing scalps a good thing?