Perfectionism

[richidoo]

In Stereophile this month is a tribute to Stereophile founder, J. Gordon Holt, who died in July.

It lists "Holt's Laws" which I found very enlightening and particularly helpful for my current nervosa of tonal perfectionism.

Holt's Laws:
1. The better the recording the worse the performance, and vice versa."

2. "The shriller the advertisement, the worse the product."

3. "Every component is imperfect, and every imperfection is audible."

My lesson learned from #3 is to appreciate what I have and stop looking for problems. Seek and ye shall find - If you look hard enough you can always find something wrong. If I get into a habit of looking for flaws then that's all I will see and the frustration piles up even though my system is excellent by any sane standard. Sane being the operative word. Perfectionism is not healthy a desire and doesn't pay in this hobby. For me it's a tough lesson. My previous hobbies rewarded perfectionism.

Are you a perfectionist? How does that affect your perspective on your system and your enjoyment of the hobby?

[Bigfish8]

Rich:

Your post is so timely for me as I am having serious considerations about this hobby.  I am confident my system is in that 95+ or - its sonic capability.  Chasing that last little bit of performance - is it really worth it and if I get it I will probably still want something different or more.  I need to take a gear vacation and just enjoy the music from my system the way it is!  A heck of a lot harder to do than to say!  I am going to try it!

Ken

[Carlman]

I've found that if I can just enjoy the music everything's fine.  It's when the system gets in the way of musical satisfaction that a change must be made.  However, I've realized it's not about getting from 95% to 99%.. and definitely not 100... That's too quantitative for this subjective passion.

There's no way to know what 100% of what you want is, you've never heard it.  Enjoy what you have.  Enjoy the music.

-C

[richidoo]

100% is the best you've ever heard, but it's still relative to what else is out there. Eventually you will adjust to the thrill of the million dollar system and crave even more. That's the addiction part. Someone will always be ready to build and sell it to you. But it will never be perfect for all time amen.

Because the quest can be frustrating at times makes it all the more intriguing and rewarding. It's hard to make things come together, and takes a lot of mental, physical and emotional commitment.  For this kind of money and effort, you could get perfectionist satisfaction from a collector car. But it won't sing to you.

[mdconnelly]

There is an aspect to this hobby that can't be denied.... we all love the thrill of the hunt.  Learning about new equipment, cables, room treatment and tweaks is part of what keeps us going and doing so online feeds the frenzy.   Resistance is futile 

But we also can't deny that we wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for the love of music.  Late night with the lights out and Miles playing justifies it all.

[rollo]

Yes I am a perfectionist but after some 40 years at this stuff you realize there is no perfection in replay. That is what it is replay. If one wants the real deal go to a Symphony.
  Look at it this way, the recordings themselves are our only source. Good or bad recordings they are the start of the system. We all have heard systems including our own that make the toe tap. sing dance etc.
  That my dear friends is when its right. When one gets emotional impact its right. At this point probably most of us experience this. YOUR BASICALLY DONE. But NO the maketing hype , your audio buddies lusting over a new device, its hard not to want to try a change in your system. Cables are the easiest form of change we can make and they make a difference. So as we can see all the posts on cables.
  Now don't get mad at me now  men because I firmly believe most systems front ends are not up to snuff. Especially the Digital end. We see people buying cables and powercords for insane money and have a mediocre CDP. DUH ! One day if its possible borrow a Class "A" state of the art CDP for a spin.
   What you will find IMO is that the system you have is just fine and that class "A" CDP or DAC will kick it up several notches.
     All of us here have such systems IMO. So in the end my opinion would be leave it alone, hire a room consultant and try a state of the art CDP or DAC. Then if you want to tinker a bit try footers, isolation devices, power conditioners and all the other tweekadoos.
     Do not ever think your front end is good enough, its NOT. That is my take.



charles

[richidoo]

Symphony ain't live anymore either. Now they hang a monitor stack 50 feet above the band.  Probably because most patrons are 90yo and can't hear shit.  But if you sit close enough it just shoots over your head.

Charles I thought you were 1/2way full of it when you gently and kindly reviewed the Altmann DAC as "OK, but..."  Now with my new DAC I realize you were right.It does make a huge difference. But while Altmann was away visiting you I couldn't stand to listen to the Squeezebox, which was fine for a year when I first got started. So until you see what's available you don't know what you're missing. Double edged sword, IMO.  I was worried that, like all other upgrades I have undertaken, the new DAC would reveal even more problems, but instead it only solved. Hallelujah! Maybe I have crested? Well, maybe on the DAC anyway....

DAC and wires are solved. Maybe not perfect, but good enough for now. I think with acoustics coming along next that problems I associate with speaker and amp will improve or resolve.  Here's hopin.,

[BobM]

I think that if you are enjoying the music in your system then you have reached perfection. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't try tweaks or try other components from time to time. It just means that you are successfully enjoying the music, and that's the goal.

There is no 100% perfect system. It's all about trade-offs, whether they be costs, or speaker type, or playback medium, or space limitations, or WAF, or many other things. Don't sweat the little stuff.

[bacobits]

Ahh, "Perfectionism". I know about that. I'm a Virgo.
The older I have gotten the less perfection I expect.
Remember mom saying life's not perfect? Geeze that used to drive me nuts. I hated that.
You can't keep up with it. It will drive you crazy!!

I have mellowed out now. Life is too short.
I probably realized that 4 years ago when how shall I say, I had a "blip in the radar".
I had a mild heart attack as so many others have had and not made it after say the median age of 50+.
Shit happens to accumulate by this time. Getting old is a BITCH.

What I expect from a system now is mostly involvement and just toe tappin'
goodness. An engaging natural sounding result. This being that elusive thing we call synergy.
I'm there and it didn't cost as much I have spent in the past 30 years of screwing with this stuff.

"There's no way to know what 100% of what you want is, you've never heard it. 
Enjoy what you have. Enjoy the music." Absolutely!!

I'm surprised to read some of you guys have only been in this crazy hobby for only 3-5 years.
Remember, most of this quest for perfection is dictated by the quality of the software played.
In other words you can't control most of it.

I just replaced my TT which I have not commented on here yet.
But I will say I'm having a blast with it. I have not played CeeDee's in 2 weeks. Yikes!
More later.

Den
 

[Black Sand Cable]

This may shock a few people but I'm saying it anyway.....

I get the chance to hear a lot of stuff on a daily basis. Some of it is crazy expensive and some very affordable. I can say with 100% certainty that the results gained from crazy expensive to affordable is not as earth shattering as some in the audio industry would have people believe. If you take the time to match components, a mid-fi system (I hate that term) can get real close to a crazy expensive system and will please 95% of the people out there.

My HT system is currently made up entirely of Epos speakers and NAD electronics and when I decide to sit and listen to a song or two, it sounds darn good and everybody who has heard it to date has walked out saying the same thing. Is it high end or crazy expensive?.....not even close.

In another room I have a two channel system that has an absolutely stupid retail price attached to it (Gamut L7's, McCormack 750's, PS Audio Perfectwave DAC & Transport, Equi=Tech 5RQ) and although it sounds dam good, I could easily live with the sound coming out of the HT system. The HT system at full retail is worth chump change. The two channel system at full retail is over $40K and when you factor in cables, cords, room treatments etc, it's fast approaching $45K.

I have another system here that is made up of a Primaluna Integrated, Sonos ZP90 being fed into a pair of PSB Imagine T's and in all honestly, I would put this system up against systems that cost two and three times as much. It's simple, works well and is anything but expensive.

My point.....I gave up on trying to get the last 5 or 10% out of a system as I think it's a case of a cat chasing it's tail. It's fun as hell to watch but after awhile you realize that the cat is going nowhere fast and once you get to that point, you start to realize just how stupid the cat looks.

How many of you have had a system you were happy with only to sell something from it and then wish you had never done it? I would bet that almost every one of us has done it.

I agree 110% with what Bob said.

I think that if you are enjoying the music in your system then you have reached perfection.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Damn good thread men.
I've been in this hobby for about 5-6 years. In that (comparatively) short time period, the idea behind "the point of diminishing returns" has not been lost on me. I've heard some great, great sounding rigs that make me drool, but I've also seen the price tags. Yes, I'm a perfectionist when it comes to certain things, but not about chasing that last few percent of a moving target.

I'm happy with my toys. They amuse me and bring me pleasure on a daily basis.
I think I'll keep 'em.

Bob

[bacobits]

Oh, definitely on the selling thing.
One of the best systems I have put together I sold about 6 years ago. STUPID!

I sold off the whole system. It's a sickness. It keeps everybody in business I guess.

Den

[Black Sand Cable]

Oh, definitely on the selling thing.
One of the best systems I have put together I sold about 6 years ago. STUPID!

I sold off the whole system. It's a sickness. It keeps everybody in business I guess.

Den

20 or so years ago my Mother gave me a complete Marantz system with a set of speakers. I cant for the life of remember what the model was of the speakers. Anyway, it sounded very nice and for reasons unknown to me I sold it and have regretted it since. The value of the components has gone through the roof and the sentimental value they represented is basically priceless.

Did I learn from it? Hell no. 5 or 6 years ago I built a nice little dual purpose system that was all Parasound and Monitor Audio that sounded kick ass. I loved this system. My wife loved it, everybody I knew wanted it and a host of people that heard it, tried to build it. The components, the room everything came together. As a result I had a few people over with mega buck systems walk away shaking their head and swearing at me.

Did I keep it? Nope.....sold it and no matter how many times I remind myself of those two events, it's only a matter of time before I do it again. Even my wife still brings up the Parasound & Monitor Audio system asking me if I'm ever going to put it together again.....how bad is that? My wife can sit and listen to a system that is worth $45K that would be considered by most to be at the high end of the audio scale and she wants me to go back in time.....

[stereofool]

I have to agree...what is perfection???

For music lovers, I would think that would be performers with acoustical (strings, winds, brass, percussion, etc) instruments, in a wonderful acoustic space, playing live un-amplified music. Since most of us don't have access to that on a regular basis, then we have to 'settle'  .

For my part, I am pretty darn happy with my system, I completely enjoy sitting down and listening to the music/performance...without trying to analyze what doesn't sound 'right'. That's not to say that improvements aren't possilbe, but I'm not willing (or maybe able) to spend megabucks chasing the dream.

Yes, tweaks are probably on the horizon, but that is with acoustical treatments, or perhaps component tweaks. Well, at least until I hear something so much better that it can't be ignored  .

[Bob in St. Louis]

Do the acoustical treatments first.

IMHO, of course.

Bob