an ultimate system? A topic to make one crazy

[shep]

I'm not greedy, just weird! so may I start the ball rolling? I'm going to do this the easy way. First decide on two speakers that will be the mainstay. First would be a heavily modified Maggie 1.6 (there's someone who has made an intensive study and application of this) , second I don't know...
Amps. Maybe those 1000 wayreds or something equally small and cool, maybe throw something from Nelson Pass into the mix. and the best from Leben for sure. Source: well for sure a fabulous cost no object analogue system (having just sold or given away 1200 lp's!!! (yeah I'm mad) and what for CD player? suggestions? pre-amp? that's a killer. I haven't any idea. (not much fun) and cables galore and a room built especially for this divine madness. Just bored guys...it's night here in Southern France, cold and rainy and my nice ice is burning in bravely upstairs, the cat (she who pisses) is sleeping (thank god) the dog likewise (dreaming of when when can next steal the cats food) Another long night on planet earth.

[shep]

Bi-polar! goody!

[Carlman]

Building the ultimate 2-channel... seemed to make sense that it be here.

I pretty much have my ultimate system... just need to finish the ultimate room to find out.   It's underway and things are looking good for first quarter next year... so, it may just happen by Spring. 

This year has been a wild ride but I feel good about 2009... and I like to feel good.

-C

[shep]

Feeling good is the name of the game and a rare commodity.

[miklorsmith]

I've just about got my dream system put together too.  Of course just about everything is getting mailed out for this'n'that and I'll be without almost everything for probably a month. 

It's weird - as one closes in on their own theoretical perfection, small gripes seemingly get elevated and also wanderlust can play tricks.  Just because you've had a piece for a while does not mean the latest and greatest will be better.

I guess that plays right back into the original premise, madness I say!

[Carlman]

It's weird - as one closes in on their own theoretical perfection, small gripes seemingly get elevated and also wanderlust can play tricks.  Just because you've had a piece for a while does not mean the latest and greatest will be better.

I guess that plays right back into the original premise, madness I say!

It does, and you've pretty much defined 'Audio Nervosa'... 

[FB101]

In one room it would look like Zu Def 2, Esoteric C03 pre-amp into a pair of Consonnance 211 mono-blocks for the top and a Genesis GR360 + MDHR for the bottom (plus whatever crazy room equalization device for the bass).
Esoteric P03 into Yamamoto's new DAC for CD and into D03 for SACD. And the Grand Prix Audio turntable  - cartridge and phono pre-amp unditenfied yet.

In the other room, Esoteric X01SE into a pre+amp by FM Acoustic and a pair of Genesis 2.2 speakers. Alternatively McCormack VRE-1 pre-amp and Genesis M360 monos + MDHR.

Now, I need to figure out where to stick a Yamamoto A09... I just love the looks of these.

[Bigfish8]

I have been chasing Audio Nervosa a little less than two years and I know two things:

1.  I do not currently own my ultimate system

2.  I don't know what equipment and speakers will make-up my ultimate system


Last night I spent about an hour on the telephone with one of the NY Area Ravers.  I came away from the conversation convinced that a person can be happy with his system but then he goes somewhere and hears something new/different.  Guess what, Audio Nervosa kicks in again. 

There is a perception I have developed about this hobby and it might be totally inaccurate due to my lack of experience.  This hobby is very similar to my experience with wine.  Initially, I could be satisfied with pretty inexpensive wine and I should have never tasted some of the more expensive stuff.  Unfortunately, I did not lose my taste for wine, I just no longer wanted the cheaper stuff that had previously tasted fine.  Just like wine there are values in audio equipment but even in my limited experience I know that the more expensive equipment tends to perform at higher levels.  Yes, I know we are talking that final 6 to 8% but if you ever hear it you darn sure want it!

To conclude, I am happy I found this hobby.  I have met some really nice, helpful people and made some friends that otherwise I would not have known.  I think possibly it was Chris (Lonewolfny) told me early on "it is not a race and enjoy the music." 

Enjoy the music guys and keep building toward those ultimate systems!

Ken

[richidoo]

Nice Ken, Thanks! Keep your mind on the music and you will always be satisfied, even with cheap gear. The brain can find as much pleasure in a table radio as it does with high end gear. It finds joy in the spirit of the music, not the sound quality. High end equipment gives more endorphins through greater realism - the thrill of truer illusion, but the spirit of the music is the same, and that's what satisfies.

Ultimate means final. I never want the joy of discovering the audio hobby to end. I will try as hard as possible to never have an ultimate system. I agree with shep, it can make me very crazy at times to need a break to get away from it.

[Carlman]

I've had audio as a hobby throughout my ambulatory life.  My focus has always been on what I can do with it.  Can I make a phone come through the stereo?  What happens if I change x, does it sound better, louder, different? 

The music is a separate interest for me.  Music either moves me or it doesn't.... and if it does, it usually doesn't move me forever... I just enjoy it for the ride.  Where the line blurs for me is if details provide the emotional satisfaction.  That's then I will need a system able to reveal those details.  Then things get interesting...  What changes can I make to improve the emotional impact, the length of time I enjoy that music... or the initial sensation.. or maybe something new I've never even heard? 

Sometimes less detail is better for enjoying music for a longer period of time.. you hear a little something new each time.. More detail let's me 'see' more into the performance.. That battle is what gets frustrating for me.

-C

[miklorsmith]

The wine analogy is apt Ken, you know more than you know.

I have told my wife and others numerous times that "after this upgrade, I'm done".  I'm a serial liar and recidivist.  One thing I truly do believe which gives me happiness - I don't think I need gear a lot more expensive than what I have to be truly happy.  So I don't have the angst of wondering how I'll ever afford those Wilsons, Halcros, or Kondos.  Of course, I wouldn't take Wilsons if you gave them to me but that's another story . . .

In fact, sending my system out for mods doesn't have much to do with sound.  I'm having the gain of my amplifier and preamp lowered, revising the power input to a new SB3 to match the battery supplies I already have, modding that SB3 to accept the clock input from the Lessloss DAC I already have.

When I listen in the car, I can jam out to a song I like.  This is with a high noise floor, objectively poor sound, no bass, in a dismal acoustic environment.  I also greatly enjoy my second system in the living room which doesn't hold a candle to the big rig.  Neither of these environments triggers "critical listener" mode. 

When I go down to my treated and dedicated (though shared) basement the ears sharpen and no prisoners are left.  I can greatly enjoy music there and when things are "perfect" I quit worrying about the sound.  I also stop sweating it when people come over to listen.  All other times my inner critic is aware of what's going on.

I believe this is the essence of audiophilia.  Crossing the subjective "happy listening" with "objective" measures is something normal folks simply don't do, probably to their credit.  How far the mania goes has a lot to do with many individual factors and ironically enough I think many audioheads lose some appreciation of the music in pursuit of impossible perfection.  If these folks are lucky they'll realize that goal was misguided from the start, and they can start living and listening with joy again.

Sorry for the OT ramble, happy Thanksgiving everyone.

[richidoo]

Is the constant seeking really for audio or musical perfection? That would imply a destination is in mind, when perfection is found and potential end of the "search." I think the search is a myth, we are on a journey, not a hunt. Just like in life, we don't seek the final destination, we seek stimulation along the path.

I think it is more simple explanation for the continuing dissatisfaction of audiophiles. Like in every other area of life, we are motivated simply by endorphins released from the thrill of receiving a random reward. It is easy to get that thrill in the early stages of the hobby, when you've never heard 12" bass drivers before or never heard .01% THD from the car radio or iPod. The thrills come fast and hard, you get addicted and learn that the remote is really "The Rabbit" for men. Then later more thrills are to be found with vinyl or ribbon tweeter, then cables and tubes, then shakti stones and continuing finer tweeking matching the infinite resolutio of the ear/brain - it never ends. The improvements at the most subtle level are equal in magnitude to the improvements found at the beginning of the journey when it was easier and cheaper to find noticable and stimulative improvements.  With practice, and an otherwise already highly  tweeked system, we can hear the most minute changes and they are enough to trigger the happy response we seek. Imagine if we used that time and energy to practice piano or calculus? haha....   

Each "winning" tweek gives a large enough improvement compared to what you have already gotten used to to cause a hit of dope in the brain/adrenals.  Every obsession, addiction, habit, comforting hobby, and love affair is caused by this strongest motivating factor. Stimulation of "feeling alive" can come from any physical sense, any thought, any feeling. The stimulation of realistic sonics combined with emotional and mental stimulation of great music can be a very intense combination.

The random part of the equation is important too. There must be a risk of loss involved to get the ultimate effect from the inevitable high. Really weird tweekie products like shakti stones, metal bowls, cable elevators, IC chips, phone call tweeks exist to fill a demand that we have to feel some risk. We buy those things counting on them to fail, so we can safely feel defeat and ridicule in order to have the largest emotional dynamic range possible, which makes the highs feel even higher.

Top that for crazy   

[Bigfish8]

Wow! 

Mike and Rich, those are pretty impressive threads.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Ken

[miklorsmith]

Imagine 20 monkeys of all types, all around you at this   exact   moment.  Now THAT's crazy.  heh.

I'm with you on the journey idea Rich though I also believe many are chasing some idea of perfection. I don't have a specific perfection in mind though I have many, many ideas of imperfection.  I want to be a 'pure journey, love the music' idealist but a downward turn is very clear to me and I don't happily bounce along with it.  My trajectory must always be upward, a facet that becomes more difficult as 8% becomes 4%, then 2% and so on.  Then some incredible experiences can reset one's assigned percentages and definitions of what is truly possible.

[richidoo]

I know what you mean. I don't exclude myself from the party, you know I am very susceptible to the dopamine rewards of detail and dynamics and have the receipts to prove it!

I am considering what's the motivation behind the search for perfection, not so much the actual path or destination. As I said above, I don't believe in audio destination, but wonder about the motivation to spend so much money to sit in a chair and... what is it? What are we doing?

I like the monkeys visual. Reminds me of my kids who are off on vacation now and all their friends are over here playing Wii.