AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Bipolar System Disorders => Topic started by: jimbones on March 04, 2021, 07:25:11 PM
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Whats your favorite sounding 12AU7?
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the rebranded Baldwin. I think there were several different manufacturers of these at different times though.
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Found a NOS 1967 Amperex NIB 12AU7
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the rebranded Baldwin. I think there were several different manufacturers of these at different times though.
Bob, The Baldwins are very reasonably priced. I just bought a matched pair (with very strong readings on test equipment) for 10 bucks a pair. At that price they would be great as a back up pair. These are green lettering with grey plates.
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Those are Sylvania from the late 50's to early 60's. Best of the Baldwin/Conn tubes to my ears are the late 50's Raytheon Black Plates which are yellow print.
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Those are Sylvania from the late 50's to early 60's. Best of the Baldwin/Conn tubes to my ears are the late 50's Raytheon Black Plates which are yellow print.
Confirmed. From what I read Sylvanias have a nice clear top end. The Phillips Miniwatt tube is amazing. I like them better than the Mullards
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I'm using Conn/Sylvania in my Hagerman Trumpet because that's what I had when it arrived- but I haven't had it long enough to do any comparisons. They seem musical and articulate.
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Depends on the system. In our preamps, I prefer either the Baldwin (personal favorite) or RCA clear tops. Current production affordable goes to JJ for sonics for me but always have problems with noise. EH12AU7, dry and clinical with no life IMO.
Sylvania are some of my favs as well.
Keep in mind tbat in our Purity Reference preamp, it's optimized for the 6SN7. You can use a 12AU7 with adapter.
Our Musica Bella circuit was optimized for 12AU7.
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Got the 1967 Amperex today and have installed as my center driver. Granted, it needs some time but the Fritzies have now found a lower bottom, not to think they could have. Initially, the imaging has improved in depth but again, needs some more time. Now I have the NOS RCA as a good back-up and as my initial reference. Kept the same RCA's for both sides.
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Got the 1967 Amperex today and have installed as my center driver. Granted, it needs some time but the Fritzies have now found a lower bottom, not to think they could have. Initially, the imaging has improved in depth but again, needs some more time. Now I have the NOS RCA as a good back-up and as my initial reference. Kept the same RCA's for both sides.
That’s great news, Brad :thumb: I’m giving the Fritzies a workout tonight....not that they’re complaining at all :lol:
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Nick,
Actually doing more listening yesterday, and comparing to my NOS RCA clear top, the Amperex sounded more "muddy". Played few RTR tracks and then rolled the RC back nd quite a difference in highs and less compressed image. I guess I need to run the Amperex for about 50 hours to see if it opens up. Strange.
What did you decide on an amp? I saw Roy had one he built for sale. Not sure if it is sold yet.
Loving my Fritzies!!
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Nick,
Actually doing more listening yesterday, and comparing to my NOS RCA clear top, the Amperex sounded more "muddy". Played few RTR tracks and then rolled the RC back nd quite a difference in highs and less compressed image. I guess I need to run the Amperex for about 50 hours to see if it opens up. Strange.
What did you decide on an amp? I saw Roy had one he built for sale. Not sure if it is sold yet.
Loving my Fritzies!!
Brad,
It’s interesting how initial impressions can sometimes change. Pls report back as it gets more hours on it. I am a tube rolling novice as the only nos I ever bought were gold pin Amperex 7308s for my pre. I wasn’t disappointed.
As to the amp, I found a used Van Alstine SET 120 that’s very, very good. I also finally found used Arion HS 100s, but they don’t have the Dueland caps which I’d want.
I have been getting such excellent advice from the guys here.
My system has really come together nicely. Synergy...as Charles would say :thumb:
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Nick, Will do as I get some hours. I hope it will change because the sound is really less impressive. Amazing. Thought you were going the tube route on the amp but Alstine has great reviews. How do the Fritzies like it?
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Valvo ECC 186 with D getters, in reality I believe they are Amperex 7316 though.
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Nick, Will do as I get some hours. I hope it will change because the sound is really less impressive. Amazing. Thought you were going the tube route on the amp but Alstine has great reviews. How do the Fritzies like it?
Brad,
I was going the tube route as my first choice.... a super modded VTA ST 70. But the latest mods aren’t finalized. I could do some assembly and light soldering, but wouldn’t know how to test if properly assembled. It’s still a possibility at some point.
The Van Alstine is great sounding for a great price...very analog in character. It’s a great match for the Fritzies
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I'm late to the party but Ive tried a lot of 12AU7s in both two sections of my amp (Cronus Magnum: pre-amp and drivers) and in a few DACs.
I agree that the RCA or Raytheon black plates are superb and the best value out there. I never cared for the RCA clear-tops: too bright on top. The Sylvanias I tried were similar but with a bit more body. NOS Tung Sol were thick sounding as were Tungsram, with the latter being better balanced. NOS Mullards (12AU7 & CV4003) are very full bodied: they are the best tubes for the drivers of my amp but not the best anywhere else although they were good everywhere. I found Amperex one of the best all around: very smooth and refined.
The finest NOS 12AU7s I've heard - with one exception - are the Radiotechniques 6189 from 1956 or 1965: balanced, extended on both ends, full bodied but refined. The one exception was a very rare Mullard Paul Mah brought over to my house to try. It might have been a 10M but I think it might have been something even rarer. It was old and it was head and shoulders above everything else I've ever heard: it just had everything, with a tonal accuracy, spaciousness, and three dimensionality that was unbelievable. Unfortunately he was never able to secure another one from his English connection.
New production I've tried include Mullard, Tung Sol, EH, JJ, Shuguang (not Psvane). All sounded good initially, with the exception of the EH, but showed significant deficits upon extended listening. The re-issued Genalex were the best new production I've heard - pretty well balanced but not up to the better NOS in tonal accuracy or refinement.
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Thanks rpf. So I have put a good 100 hours on the Amperex and to me with my VTA ST-70, the 1960's clear top RCA's sound the best. Again, I only got one as the center driver., sides are still RCA. The Amperex just was not as detailed , hard to explain but it felt like there were brackets ( ) around the imaging / soundstage where the RCA's expanded things. Crazy hobby in search of nirvana.
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The RCA clear top is known to be synergistic with the original and modified Dynas. I think it's the tube the original Dynas came with though I couldn't say for certain. Lucky you as they're still inexpensive! :thumb:
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Whats your favorite sounding 12AU7?
After spending more money than I ever care to admit on vintage 12au7 and 12ax7 tubes, in the end I found that my favorites were two new production tubes.
For anything sensitive to noise, the Gold Lions were a great compromise, they have more of what I consider a vintage sound and are super quiet.
For magical midrange and soundstage, TJ Full Music 12AU7. I loved these tubes but they were too noisy to be used in a phono stage. No issues in my Rogue 88 amp driver stage.
Best "All Around" tube for me was the Mullard CV4003 but they weren't so expensive when I bought them, I think I got a NOS matched pair for $100-120 and would no way pay today's prices for them, I'd circle back to the Gold Lions for $70.
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Another concern with NOS is supply of such. When you find the tube of choice get several to keep that sound.
charles
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The RCA clear top is known to be synergistic with the original and modified Dynas. I think it's the tube the original Dynas came with though I couldn't say for certain. Lucky you as they're still inexpensive! :thumb:
Interesting you say that, Rob.....
I don't know much about it, but I got impulsive and just bought a Dynaco ST-70 rebuilt by master Chris Keller in NC and he included RCA cleartops. To say I'm impressed is an understatement. He is known for his work on vintage tube gear -- Dyna, Fisher, Scott, Pilot, etc. -- and his restoration of this amp is impeccable. It is like brand new, even the case. His passion and expertise are obvious. :thumb:
Very fair pricing considering how much they sell for used and beat up.
This is the one I bought:
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649729466-dynaco-st-70-totally-restored-and-upgraded/
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The RCA clear top is known to be synergistic with the original and modified Dynas. I think it's the tube the original Dynas came with though I couldn't say for certain. Lucky you as they're still inexpensive! :thumb:
Interesting you say that, Rob.....
I don't know much about it, but I got impulsive and just bought a Dynaco ST-70 rebuilt by master Chris Keller in NC and he included RCA cleartops. To say I'm impressed is an understatement. He is known for his work on vintage tube gear -- Dyna, Fisher, Scott, Pilot, etc. -- and his restoration of this amp is impeccable. It is like brand new, even the case. His passion and expertise are obvious. :thumb:
Very fair pricing considering how much they sell for used and beat up.
This is the one I bought:
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649729466-dynaco-st-70-totally-restored-and-upgraded/
That is beautiful workmanship! Quite nicer looking than most of the ST 70s I’ve seen. Have you had an ST 70 before?
Just found this....
http://glowinthedarkaudio.com/chris-keller-st70.html
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It's my first ST-70.
I've been emailing with Chris -- super nice helpful guy who goes above and beyond to make sure his customers are satisfied -- and I asked him about that amp, and how nice it was with RCA connectors in the rear.
His reply:
Uggh, that pic on Glowinthedark is terrible. That guy sent it to me for some work and it was a mess. Someone did all kinds of barn jobs on it - a half assed paint job, chopped up the chassis, the wiring was all messed up. The power tranny was shot. I wanted to redo the whole thing for him properly, but he just wanted a couple of things done and get it running. If I'd have known he was going to post that pic and attribute it to me, I would have passed on that job! Then the thing followed me. A guy in Texas bought it off his site and contacted me to see if he could send it to me for an overhaul. LOL I ended up stripping it completely down and doing it properly, much like yours. The Texan loved it.
As for the RCA's, they can have a tendency to pick up a little hum off the tranny's when located back there. At least folks with high efficient speakers tell me that. What I do have are right angle RCA adaptors that allow the cables to swing around the side. See pic attached. I should have put some in your box. You want a pair? I have plenty.
Really great to know a competent and reliable tube tech these days. He tells me that Roy Mottram over at VTA / Tubes4Hifi is swamped with work and he asked Chris to help with some builds, and also help sorting out some technical issues that customers were having. Even wants him to buy into the business -- apparently Roy wants to slow down. He's got that kinda respect in the industry.
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It's my first ST-70.
I've been emailing with Chris -- super nice helpful guy who goes above and beyond to make sure his customers are satisfied -- and I asked him about that amp, and how nice it was with RCA connectors in the rear.
His reply:
Uggh, that pic on Glowinthedark is terrible. That guy sent it to me for some work and it was a mess. Someone did all kinds of barn jobs on it - a half assed paint job, chopped up the chassis, the wiring was all messed up. The power tranny was shot. I wanted to redo the whole thing for him properly, but he just wanted a couple of things done and get it running. If I'd have known he was going to post that pic and attribute it to me, I would have passed on that job! Then the thing followed me. A guy in Texas bought it off his site and contacted me to see if he could send it to me for an overhaul. LOL I ended up stripping it completely down and doing it properly, much like yours. The Texan loved it.
As for the RCA's, they can have a tendency to pick up a little hum off the tranny's when located back there. At least folks with high efficient speakers tell me that. What I do have are right angle RCA adaptors that allow the cables to swing around the side. See pic attached. I should have put some in your box. You want a pair? I have plenty.
Really great to know a competent and reliable tube tech these days. He tells me that Roy Mottram over at VTA / Tubes4Hifi is swamped with work and he asked Chris to help with some builds, and also help sorting out some technical issues that customers were having. Even wants him to buy into the business -- apparently Roy wants to slow down. He's got that kinda respect in the industry.
Well, that explains some of those pics. Were it me, I wouldn’t have posted them. In the Audio Mart ad, the quality really shows. As to those rca’s being in the back, it looks better that way, I don’t think I’ve ever had efficient speakers anyway.
You will, of course, post your impressions, right!?
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The RCA clear top is known to be synergistic with the original and modified Dynas. I think it's the tube the original Dynas came with though I couldn't say for certain. Lucky you as they're still inexpensive! :thumb:
Interesting you say that, Rob.....
I don't know much about it, but I got impulsive and just bought a Dynaco ST-70 rebuilt by master Chris Keller in NC and he included RCA cleartops. To say I'm impressed is an understatement. He is known for his work on vintage tube gear -- Dyna, Fisher, Scott, Pilot, etc. -- and his restoration of this amp is impeccable. It is like brand new, even the case. His passion and expertise are obvious. :thumb:
Very fair pricing considering how much they sell for used and beat up.
This is the one I bought:
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649729466-dynaco-st-70-totally-restored-and-upgraded/
Hey John,
Yes, that is a beautiful piece - and yes, the price is more than reasonable for that level of upgrade and finish.
Review please! How does it compare to the Dodd Mono 120s you had? They were the only EL34 based amps I've ever heard that were extended on both top and bottom (unfortunately I've never heard the big Manley or Cary EL34 mono-blocks).
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Hi Rob......
Didn't buy the Dynaco for my Sunny H2W10 speakers, just not enough juice. No way they will measure up to the Dodd grunt.
Looking back on it, never should have sold those Dodd monos. With that 120wpc of el34 goodness, best my Sunnys ever sounded in my place. Those amps were ballsy! At 92db and a fairly flat curve the Sunnys are easy to drive, but for some reason they need some power to really gel and come alive. At shows they were usually paired with very high quality SS beasts like Behold. I did try powerful SS and class D on them, but just not for me. I prefer tubes, and powerful tubes are pricey.
Been 12 years with the Sunnys....an eternity for me. Great great speaker IMO, but not the best for low level listening -- they need to be goosed a bit to come alive. Impressive once you play them like that. But my life has changed -- no more house, I'm in an apartment now, gotta keep it down a bit. Now I need a speaker that still performs at low SPL. Also want high efficiency for the wide amp universe it provides, and all the great low power tube amps you can buy very reasonably for say 800 to 1400 used.
I don't know what came over me, but I went a little overboard in the past few weeks and bought two pair of speakers that fit the bill: Klipsch Forte IV and Zu Dirty Weeekends Mk2. That's the reason for the Dynaco purchase. Years ago when still a somewhat young man :rofl: I owned Coincidents and Silverline speakers. Remember fondly the great music I got from my low power tubes : 300B, 845, el84, el34, etc. So I'm looking forward to getting back on that track for some really sweet low level late night magic.
The Dynaco was an impulse I probably should have ignored. I already have two very decent low-ish power amps I should have tried first, and then moved on if I needed to. Oh well.......I hadn't bought any gear in a long time, blame it on pent- up demand. :roll:
Should be fun. In addition to the ST-70 I have a Baldwin Organ Super amp rebuilt by Will Vincent (6l6 power tubes, 20wpc) , and an SET amp built by a CJ tech in his basement (6as7 power tube, about 10 wpc)
Later.....
John
PS: sorry for the thread hi-jack!
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Looking back on it, never should have sold those Dodd monos....
This isn't the first time I've read this comment about the Dodd 120's.
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Looking back on it, never should have sold those Dodd monos....
This isn't the first time I've read this comment about the Dodd 120's.
Yes, I should have bought them off John when he sold them. :drool: :duh :rofl:
John, try to find some Reflecktor 6P3S-E for your 6L6 amp if it can take them (should be able to if it can handle 6L6GCs). The best of the 6L6/KT66 family I've heard (including RCA black plates & Sylvania 6L6GCs & Shuguang & Genalex re-issue KT66s). Fantastic tubes, they've been my favorite power tube for several years now.
Another apology for an off topic post. But tubes!
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Looking back on it, never should have sold those Dodd monos....
This isn't the first time I've read this comment about the Dodd 120's.
Yep. The Dodds were amazing amps. Headroom for days...
I'm on my third and hopefully final rebuild of one of my ST 70 amps. I'm using the VTA input boards and heavy duty power transformer. Pretty much the only things original are the output transformers. As usual I couldn't help myself and cryoed the output transformers. There were interesting changes in electrical parameters when I did this. I'll know soon about about the audible results.
Depending upon how it turns out my plan is to do the same mods on the other one I have and then have vertical bi-wire pairs of amps.
I love me some tubes goodness! :thumb:
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Glad I joined the world of tubes with my Audio Hungary preamp 🎶🎶 :thumb:
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That is beautiful! FYI, I use right angle connector on my front RCA inputs to route the input cables around the front and then under the outside edges of the rubber feet t o the back of the amp. Makes a cleaner look. NOTE- the ones that have a square corners do not fully turn parallel with the top of the amp so look for one that are more rounded. I had to do some filing on the gold plated corners to allow these to turn a full 90degree.
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John, try to find some Reflecktor 6P3S-E for your 6L6 amp if it can take them (should be able to if it can handle 6L6GCs). The best of the 6L6/KT66 family I've heard (including RCA black plates & Sylvania 6L6GCs & Shuguang & Genalex re-issue KT66s). Fantastic tubes, they've been my favorite power tube for several years now.
Another apology for an off topic post. But tubes!
Got 'em, Rob -- the coin base version. Thanks! :thumb:
Will Vincent included them when he returned the amp to me after a repair. He said they are his faves in that amp.
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That is beautiful! FYI, I use right angle connector on my front RCA inputs to route the input cables around the front and then under the outside edges of the rubber feet t o the back of the amp. Makes a cleaner look. NOTE- the ones that have a square corners do not fully turn parallel with the top of the amp so look for one that are more rounded. I had to do some filing on the gold plated corners to allow these to turn a full 90degree.
Trying to visualize what you’re saying... Can you reword it?
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I think he's saying this......
The RCA inputs on his VTA ST-70 amp are so closely spaced that when he rotates the adapters down so that he can kindof drop the IC and run it under the bottom front corners of the amp, the corners of the "squarish" adapters crash into each other, preventing this rotation. So he filed off the corners. If you get the "roundish" ones, no filing needed.
But I could be wrong. :lol:
These photos will help to visualize.
VTA amp:
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/VTA70a.jpg (http://www.tubes4hifi.com/VTA70a.jpg)
"squarish" RCA adapters:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81v0QMNBQwL._SL1500_.jpg (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81v0QMNBQwL._SL1500_.jpg)
"roundish" RCA adapters:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41IZOeeISrL._AC_.jpg (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41IZOeeISrL._AC_.jpg)
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I think he's saying this......
The RCA inputs on his VTA ST-70 amp are so closely spaced that when he rotates the adapters down so that he can kindof drop the IC and run it under the bottom front corners of the amp, the corners of the "squarish" adapters crash into each other, preventing this rotation. So he filed off the corners. If you get the "roundish" ones, no filing needed.
But I could be wrong. :lol:
These photos will help to visualize.
VTA amp:
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/VTA70a.jpg (http://www.tubes4hifi.com/VTA70a.jpg)
"squarish" RCA adapters:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81v0QMNBQwL._SL1500_.jpg (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81v0QMNBQwL._SL1500_.jpg)
"roundish" RCA adapters:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41IZOeeISrL._AC_.jpg (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41IZOeeISrL._AC_.jpg)
Thanks, John. That is very helpful :thumb:
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I am a 12BH7A convert.
I find more consistency between various 12BH7A than various 12AU7, no matter their heritage. These days I am looking for repeatability of excellent sonics than ultimate WOW factor that is fleeting.
12BH7A tubes have a universal "rightness" to their sound.
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toobluvr -- stated much more succinctly!!
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I am a 12BH7A convert.
I find more consistency between various 12BH7A than various 12AU7, no matter their heritage. These days I am looking for repeatability of excellent sonics than ultimate WOW factor that is fleeting.
12BH7A tubes have a universal "rightness" to their sound.
Interesting. Is it a direct drop-in replacement for 12au7?
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I am a 12BH7A convert.
It's what I use in the outside slots on my Moscode 401 amp.