M2Tech Board Vs Off-Ramp

[bhobba]

I posted this in the Audiosyndrome section but I thought it would also be interesting to do a separate post about it and see if people have any ideas - this is actually a bit strange.

My PDX uses a battery powered M2Tech board but the board in the PDX has recently been redesigned to use a new PCB board the M2Tech board docks directly onto it.  I compared it to my older PDX and it sounded better so I ordered a new one but this time with the option of an I2S input to connect my Off-Ramp to.  Now the Off-Ramp is a quantum leap above the M2Tech and everyone expected the Off-Ramp to annihilate the M2tech. Everything I had previously tried the Off-Ramp against the Off-Ramp blew away - that includes the Audioplellio, JK, Wavelength, Berkley, and Stello.  But when I connected it up - guess what - it didn't - is was excruciatingly close - what the fook.

The Off-Ramp was slightly smoother and more analogue like but the M2TEch was slightly rougher but sounded a bit more detailed - which is better - I don't know.  I have demoed it to a few acquaintances and they say the same as me - both really good but which is better - don't know.  I am going to have some guys over to my place when they get a bit of time to try and get to the bottom of it.

The only thing I can think of is the shorter paths are lifting the performance of the M2Tech.  I sent a note to Steve Nugent about it and he is going to do a mod on my Off-Ramp that he thinks will make a big difference.

If anyone has any ideas about this don't be shy in coming forward.  This is really strange - the Off-Ramp is in every way better than the M2Tech boards.

Thanks
Bill

[satfrat]

Bill, about the Off-Ramp, does the transport have any Hynes regulators in it? Are you using any power conditioning with the Off-Ramp? Are you using a wallwart PS with the Off-Ramp? Thanks.

Cheers,
Robin

[bhobba]

Hi Robin

My Off-Ramp is the top of the line model with Turboclocks and Hynes regulators everywhere.  The battery powered M2Tech is simply that - nothing fancy yet its up there with the Off-Ramp - no other device was able to do it.  Steve thinks he knows why and is going to mod my Off-Ramp to fix it.  That's why I haven't posted about it on forums like Computer Audiophile because I really want to see what the mod does when both Steve and I get a bit of time to have it done.

Thanks
Bill

[satfrat]

Hi Robim

My Off-Ramp is the top of the line model with Turboclocks and Hynes regulators everywhere.  The battery powered M2Tech is simply that - nothing fancy yet its up there with the Off-Ramp - no other device was able to do it.  Steve thinks he knows why and is going to mod my Off-Ramp to fix it.  That's why I haven't posted about it on forums like Computer Audiophile because I really want to see what the mod does when both Steve and I get a bit of time to have it done.

Thanks
Bill

Damn I don't know what more Steve can do that hasn't already been done to your Off-Ramp.   Sounds like you already have the full monty there. Those Hynes regulators should offset the battery power of the M2Tech so there's a level playing field there. I know when I replaced my wallwart PS with a Hynes SR3-12 PS, there was a clearcut improvement in the overall performance of the transport. So that's where I was working off from with my questions. Good luck with the next Off-Ramp revision Bill.  

Cheers,
Robin

[rollo]

  Well , received the PDX today, went too hook it up but no SPDIF output. This is Mike Lenehans personal piece I guess suited for computer audio only. Bummer.
   I expected both USB and SPDIF outputs. I just assumed it came with SPDIF as stock. Communication is a wonderfull thing, oh well. I cannot use it know zero about computers.
    Will be demonstrating products this weekend at Woodsyi's home and the Washington DIY club. I guess they know how to set it up, if not it is going to be only the QOL experience. Getting in a Nekko mk2 as well to try out. SPDIF here I come.


charles

[richidoo]

Have a fun and safe trip Charles. Rim's gang is a fun bunch of smart guys.

With USB, you probably just need to plug it in and it will configure itself in Windows with "plug and play." Then you just put a CD into your CD/DVD drive and it should start playing music through the DAC, using "AutoPlay" feature of Windows. If it doesn't start automatically report back so we can help you adjust the settings.
Rich

[rollo]

Thanks Rich.  I guess it is time to get more aquainted with the computer. Times are a changin.


charles

[bhobba]

I have been privy to the listening sessions that show USB is streets ahead which is why a number of guys out my way, Mike included, have switched to USB exclusively.  Mike actually hates computers and it is only the increase in sound quality that compells him to do it.

You simply need any computer and download the drivers from M2Tech.  Remember - it uses the M2Tech driver and you download them from here:
http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface.html#driver

But I think you will be impressed.  A guy I know from the forums here is Aus wanted me to hear his Bryston and Berkeley USB converter - which I did - suffice to say the Bryston was not the winner.  I also sent my PDX down to him and he had both for a while.  Here is what he wrote:

Tonight I listened to the PDX for about an hour and then put the Bryston on via the Berkeley planning to listen for another hour. After about 20 minutes I put the PDX back on. Wow what a difference.

I have a fellow SNA member coming around on Friday for a comparison but besides that I cant see me playing the Bryston much this side of Monday when the PDX goes to Sydney.

The musicality, depth and warmth of the PDX really brings out the emotion in the music and is just so moreish in comparison. I have been enjoying the PDX but to tell you the truth it wasn't until directly comparing tonight that I released just how musical and emotionally realistic the PDX is over the bryston.

It's going next to a guy in Sydney who contacted me to hear it.

Thanks
Bill

[jimbones]

OK so I bought my M2 Tech used for $100 but the Off Ramp is in the thousands, so I say even if the Off Ramp is better I get the better value 

[R-A-W]

Bill,

Do you have any news on the internal M2Tech board vs the I2S connected Offramp to your PDX?

Thanks,
Roger

[bhobba]

Hi Roger

Sorry for the late reply - just noticed the post.

Yea - have been doing a lot of comparisons between the two.

On my ML3 Reference its a dead heat - the Off-Ramp is slightly smoother and more analogue like but the internal USB is rawer sounding with more apparent detail.

This came as a total surprise since what Steve does is way ahead of the M2Tech - but there it was.  Of course the bloke that makes the PDX is chuffed but what exactly is going on was not clear.

Moving along a bit I was recently down in Canberra and did the comparison again this time on some SGR speakers which are a three way active design and has a sound a lot different to my speakers - both are very accurate but the SGR's have a more recessed sound with a dryer more clinical presentation.  Which people like is a personal preference sort of thing.

Anyway on that system the Off-Ramp simply blew away the internal USB - no contest.  The guy that owned the system was shocked - how could this thing make such a difference - but it most certainly did.  Also on that system the Metrum fed by the Off-Ramp was clearly better than the PDX.

OK - what the heck is going on here?  After thinking about it here is my take.  My ML3 Reference have Duelund VSF Copper everywhere which are lighting fast in the way they sound and is responsible for much of the sound difference in the two speakers.  Now while Steves Off-Ramp is technically way ahead of the M2Tech in the PDX it is docked directly onto the DAC's PCB and directly injected into the DAC's PCM1704 chip.  This is making up for the difference by letting more detail through if your speakers have the speed to reveal it - which mine do and the SGR's perhaps do not - not to have a go at SGR if any fans of those speakers are reading this - its just for some reason Duelund Capacitors sound really fast and reveal incredible detail.

Anyway since I use ML3 Reference I decided to get the I2S input of my PDX changed over to SPDIF and will be using the PDX's internal M2Tech.

Thanks
Bill 

[R-A-W]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your reply.
I have been thinking about this but it doesn't make sense to me.
The Offramp seems to improve any USB input on any DAC in any system you have tried it.
But it only doesn't on the PDX in your system (while it does on the PDX in other systems).
Is this right?

System synergy is the only thing I can think of.
But then again; why only with the PDX in your system.

A few questions:
Do you have a different power setup (filter, regenerator) from the other systems?
What was the take of Steve N on this?
Did he finally do the planned mod on the OR5? (or was it OR4?)

By the way did you read this one?:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/burson8/5.html
Surprising to me too ..
Are you planning to try an Overdrive too?

Thanks,
Roger

[bhobba]

Its not power conditioning or anything like that - checked all those things.  I am convinced it the apparent speed of my speakers - for example the highly acclaimed Playback Designs DAC sounds slow and sluggish on them when you don't upsample

Gave the link a read.

I own the Burson DAC although I lent it to a friend a while ago and he hasn't returned it yet - reminds me to send him a note to pop it back.  

IMHO it a not that good a DAC - good for the money - but not in the class of my other DAC's such as the Metrum, PDX or WFS (when fed with the Off-Ramp).

Its quite possible I will get an Overdrive one day but right now a Killer DAC is next in line.

Thanks
Bill

[Lizard_king]

I used to use the M2tech Hi-Face with a BNC into my DAC and that was great. I then moved up to the M2tech EVO and that was better. My system is down these days so I am speaking about the past.

I used very high end cables for both the USB and BNC anmd those SQ was great. I have a shunt regulated power supply built for the EVO and the SQ was so musical and analog, my digital front end rivaled my TT!