Sonos digital out

[richidoo]

I have been using the digital coax output from my Sonos ZP-80 player into my Altmann Attraction DAC as my main digital source for a while now. The operation and ease of use is great, as is Sonos tech support, as told in my previous review a few months back.

Last night my friend Sol came over to let me hear his new 15W SS integrated amp. It sounds incredible, his best sounding amp yet. When Sol was here we used a CDP as transport so he could spin CDs without ripping. The amp sounded clear and powerful, extremely detailed, yet smooth and musical. I was very excited to spend some time with it listening to my weird music. 

After he left, I hooked up the Sonos as transport and was surprised to hear the sound change. More details in the upper mid and high frequencies at first, especially on softer slower material. Recorded tape hiss became more obvious, and massed string sheen was brighter and distracting. But as the signal got louder and more complex, the sound from the DAC was harsher and more etched. On wide open passages it was very noticable.  I was tempted to blame the amp, except that it sounded so good just an hour before. Maybe my wife is right - I am crazy???

I had been aware of some edginess in the system for a while. Someone suggested it might be the Altmann's 2134 output stage opamps so I was becoming more aware of it and blaming the DAC. I did not hear it when listening to FM. With Sol's new amp adding significantly more resolution the edginess became more obvious.

Thankfully, I was of sound mind enough this time to remember the 2 different digital transports instead of blaming the amp. This afternoon I compared the Sonos digital output to two different CDPs. My stock Samsung HD-841 universal player, and Sols Marantz CDP. They both sounded identical as transports - smooth, rich musical, no harsh edge, but plenty of detail and texture. The Samsung analog also sounded pretty good playing the SACD layer, but not as good as Altmann on redbook. Putting the Sonos back in, the hyper detailed treble returned along with the annoying edge.

The upside is that the Altmann is exonerated. The downside is I gotta figure out what's up with the Sonos. To be clear, we're talking very subtle stuff here, it took me a year of listening and even 4 g2gs of comparing digital sources before I finally noticed it while using a handmade prototype amp of incredibly high resolution. But ANers listen at this level of resolution, so it's worth discussing. I still intend to buy more Sonos for the house, but I will have to get one souped-up for the hifi.

The Sonos digital output mods from Cullen and Empirical spring to mind, they both suggest that hardware mods really bring the Sonos to life for digital transport. Squeezebox supposedly benefits from digital mods too. Cullen implicates some specific parts in the Sonos that need to go. I guess I'm surprised that any transport is different than any other. But as I continue to learn, in audio everything little thing matters.

[Black Sand Cable]

The downside is I gotta figure out what's up with the Sonos. To be clear, we're talking very subtle stuff here, it took me a year of listening and even 4 g2gs of comparing digital sources before I finally noticed it while using a handmade prototype amp of incredibly high resolution. But ANers listen at this level of resolution, so it's worth discussing. I still intend to buy more Sonos for the house, but I will have to get one souped-up for the hifi.

The Sonos digital output mods from Cullen and Empirical spring to mind, they both suggest that hardware mods really bring the Sonos to life for digital transport. Squeezebox supposedly benefits from digital mods too. Cullen implicates some specific parts in the Sonos that need to go. I guess I'm surprised that any transport is different than any other. But as I continue to learn, in audio everything little thing matters.

Silly question but what the hell, you have all the tone controls in the Sonos bypassed correct? Also, do you use the volume control with the Sonos or do you have it set to fixed? I keep mine on the fixed setting.

When it comes to Cullen, keep in mind that the ZP80 / ZP90 mods are intended for people who are going to be using a DAC along with the Sonos. I'm going to be bringing in some stock of the modded ZP90's in the not to distant future. If you want to play around with one, I may be able to make that happen. 

[mdconnelly]

Rich, interesting findings.   Have you had a chance to try other DACs with the Sonos?  Just curious.   Alternatively, did you get much chance to compare the Sonos with Ken's supreme Transporter?

While I find myself listening frequently to my Duet via the Tact DAC, I hear a similar difference as you describe between the Duet as source and the Oracle CD transport (which was previously Shane's).   Most of the difference I hear is in the top end with the Oracle just being more relaxed, refined and real.    I've been tempted to go the mod route or the Transporter route (or both), but I'm certain we'll begin to see much improved product or new players in this arena soon.   Until then, I get my critical listening fix from the Oracle CDT or spinning vinyl.  For everything else, the Duet works extremely well.

[richidoo]

Thanks John! I was gonna ask if you would be selling Cullen mods, but figured you'd let me know.
I did check the software EQ controls, even did a reset to default. I also compared the fixed and variable volume control settings, no change. I like how when switching from fixed to variable, the software automatically sets the variable down to 25% volume - nice touch! I don't have any other remote volume control in my system (yet), so I like to use the Sonos volume on occasion. Thanks to your open minded and good natured approach I was not shy to post this new twist, and knew you would be right there with solutions and encouragement. That's why I buy from you! Even the "issues" are fun.   My want list is getting pretty heavy with Black Sands merchandise. Lookout when the money spigot turns back on!

Mike, I have only listened to the Sonos analog output once, about a month ago. As expected, I was not missing out on anything great. Ken's TP does not allow digital input after the tube mod, so it can't be used as a standalone DAC. I have not had the opportunity to hear the Sonos with other DACs, well maybe Carl's Nixon TubeDAC once, but I honestly don't remember the difference. And I haven't listened to other DACs in context of comparing transports. I may have that opportunity soon to hear Carls DAC on the Sonos.

Paul Hynes has been doing some good work with the Altmann DAC lately so I have been getting excited to try some of his super regulators on my DAC, along with exotic output caps. That's why I was relieved to know the DAC's opamps are having less impact on the tone than I feared. So I'm actually pretty happy about this finding.