Grover ICs vs. Reality ICs

[grover]

Just noticed this http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71534.msg668253;topicseen#new Everyone so far makes similar comments about the Sx. Sorry don't like that amp. No offense.

[richidoo]

Everyone so far makes similar comments about the Sx.

"Everyone so far" being owenmd (the AC poster) and me. Consensus?

owenmd has not compared Sx to JPS SC3.

I did not say Sx was shit, I only said JPS was better than Sx.  You invite the comparison every time you trash JPS. 

In my listening impressions I also said that SCdot was better than Sx. The $75 SX upgrade is more relevant to the participants of this thread than a $700 upgrade to JPS.

[HumanMedia]

Hmmm. My SX have not arrived so I can't give an opinion yet. Having used the last few iterations I have to say that the general impressions are that the series have great clarity but on my system are very forward sounding. That is seem to have a push I the lower treble and uppermids. Since I send the older cables in I can't compare but from memory my favorites have been the white ones (S? Or UE8?) and the SC (no dot) For me the SC. were a step in the wrong direction with any midrange improvements far outweighed by even more pronounced lower treble.

And yes all cables had thousands of hours on them before being upgraded and my system is probably a tad on the warm side generally (Rega Saturn, Modwright 36.5, CIAudio D200, Spendor SP100).

I am disappointed that there isn't a positive consensus about the SX and that they maybe even more pronounced in the lower treble - upper midrange.

I am also starting to suspect, in my ignorant cable naivety, that the negatives I hear are typical of silver-copper hybrids. And that pursuing a pure continuous cast copper or silver route (but not both) with less shielding may be a more productive direction.   Yes I know this is heretical nonsense but I am just thinking aloud.

Anyway I am looking forward to the SX and that it is a winner in my system.

[richidoo]

I upgraded to Grover S (white) from Anticable,  a continuous copper wire with only transformer lacquer insulation and many positive testimonials on their website. The Grovers were a HUGE improvement, and I was so grateful for the opportunity to improve the system so much for so little money, especially with group buy price.  My system has changed a lot since then, more revealling, less warm.

[richidoo]

I received an email this morning from Playback online magazine (formerly Perfect Vision) with a link to the review of Odyssey Khartago by Jonathan Valin, which was published in TAS last month.  This reviewer is one of the few that I trust for basic yes or no opinion on components. Everything he has reviewed favorably which I have heard I also thought sounded very good.

http://www.avguide.com/product/odyssey-audio/khartago

There is no reason to assume that Ken's Stratos Mono Extreme would sound worse than Khartago. Many people own Odyssey amps and are very satisfied. I heard the complete Kismet system at RMAF08 and thought it was very good. A little aggressive for my tubey taste but not distorted or tonally colored which is what we are concerned with in evaluating wires. Kismet was one of the best sounds at the show. Odyssey amps are lower distortion and more revealling of tonal anomolies than a tube amplifier built with warm vintage tubes and iron.  I think this a cause for some of the confusion that is pervading this thread.

[Carlman]

So now we've got a tube vs. SS debate to throw in the mix? ha. 

Let's face it, we're all seasoned audiophiles looking to learn something.  I don't think anyone here is on an amp or cable manufacturer's payroll... and this site doesn't have the steering weight of manufacturer or user specific forum areas.  So, it's THE place to be open and honest about what you hear.

Manufacturers take great pride in their work and it's a big blow to get shot down publicly.  I'm sure Klaus wouldn't agree with you, Grover.   However, it's how you react (or don't react) that can make an issue better or worse.  No one is out to get anyone here. 

I've noticed over the years on AC, just about any negative review is considered in poor taste.. and only veiled criticism through positive writing is allowed.  That isn't truth to me.. it's 'being nice'.  There is a fine line between dishing out the truth and being a jerk... and I haven't seen anyone cross it here.  We're all adults with real minds and opinions and I encourage everyone to speak their minds and help us learn from your experiences.  (note: Badmouthing a well-known and respected brand in the face of 1 so-so review is a good example of 'poor taste' in my opinion.... Nothing personal, just my opinion.)

If there is a science to making cable, it must be a real pain to figure out.. because the ones that sound universally incredible, tend to cost a lot.  The ones that sound good for the money, seem to be very synergy-dependent.

All that said, I've sat next to people loving what they were hearing while I was ready to rip off my ears...

Seems like it'd be wise to use a constant.. like a known reviewer.. 6moons or someone like that.. Get some cables into a reviewer's hands who people already know.. That's the only way to go it seems to me.

All we've got is each other. I know the locals' ears a good bit.. and it helps me to know what they like so I can make a determination.  It's hard to critique your own gear... and even harder to accept the criticism.. and then super hard to pay to fix it!   But anyway... I've digressed enough.

-C

[bpape]

Not at all Carl.  I think that was very well said. 

Even with VERY expensive components and cabling, synergy is still the kay.  I know for a fact that I have a very good friend who's system can sound incredible when everything is right. Take any of those components and drop them into my system - not so good.  His is all about synergy and getting every piece, every wire, every tube choice to fit into what he wants to hear - and correct for non-linearities in other parts of his chain:

- Lowther OB's
- OLD SCHOOL subs with AR active xover and AKSA D amp driving the subs
- 2 WPC 300B amps
- Tube pre
- USB out from PC to MHDT Havana (modded) DAC
- DIY pre and speaker cables.

NONE of those pieces (except for the Havana and the AR xover) would work at all in my system.

Bryan

[djbnh]

Boy, go to NC for a couple days for a conference / do a presentation and see what I've missed! [NOTE: bummed I couldn't get out to Cary NC to see what Cary Audio offered - I stayed at the Sheraton near the Raleigh / Durham airport, and wasn't pleased that without a car, the location offered little. Don't get me wrong, the hotel was a good one; however, there's seemingly nothing much accessible around it without a car.]

I'm appreciative of the candor and ability to freely dialog on A/N, as witnessed in this thread, and hope it continues. There's products I like and those I don't. It's nice to read that there's differing opinions on these cables and reasons for those opinions offered. Hopefully more persons who've heard Grover's cables will post. For now, I'm not likely to take Grover up on his upgrade offer based off the thoughtful commentary in this thread.

[mboldda1]

funny, this thread started out asking about grover cables vs. straley reality cables.  how did it morph into grover vs. jps labs?

[Carlman]

I don't know.. but I still like the Reality's.. and the customer service is top notch.  Gregg repaired the set I sent him at no charge.. and did it quick!
-C

[HumanMedia]

Grover SX balanced interconnects received and burning in.

Too early to judge them but midrange seems larger and more natural (amongst all that 'fresh' un-burned in cable sound)

More as time progresses.

[richidoo]

What wires are you replacing and please describe your system Human media. Thanks
Rich

[HumanMedia]

The Grover SX (2m XLR ended) are replacing SC.(dot) from linestage to power amps.
System is Rega Saturn CDP, Modwright 36.5 linestage, CIAudio D200 amps into Spendor SP100 speakers.

[rollo]

So now we've got a tube vs. SS debate to throw in the mix? ha. 

Let's face it, we're all seasoned audiophiles looking to learn something.  I don't think anyone here is on an amp or cable manufacturer's payroll... and this site doesn't have the steering weight of manufacturer or user specific forum areas.  So, it's THE place to be open and honest about what you hear.

Manufacturers take great pride in their work and it's a big blow to get shot down publicly.  I'm sure Klaus wouldn't agree with you, Grover.   However, it's how you react (or don't react) that can make an issue better or worse.  No one is out to get anyone here. 

I've noticed over the years on AC, just about any negative review is considered in poor taste.. and only veiled criticism through positive writing is allowed.  That isn't truth to me.. it's 'being nice'.  There is a fine line between dishing out the truth and being a jerk... and I haven't seen anyone cross it here.  We're all adults with real minds and opinions and I encourage everyone to speak their minds and help us learn from your experiences.  (note: Badmouthing a well-known and respected brand in the face of 1 so-so review is a good example of 'poor taste' in my opinion.... Nothing personal, just my opinion.)

If there is a science to making cable, it must be a real pain to figure out.. because the ones that sound universally incredible, tend to cost a lot.  The ones that sound good for the money, seem to be very synergy-dependent.

All that said, I've sat next to people loving what they were hearing while I was ready to rip off my ears...

Seems like it'd be wise to use a constant.. like a known reviewer.. 6moons or someone like that.. Get some cables into a reviewer's hands who people already know.. That's the only way to go it seems to me.

All we've got is each other. I know the locals' ears a good bit.. and it helps me to know what they like so I can make a determination.  It's hard to critique your own gear... and even harder to accept the criticism.. and then super hard to pay to fix it!   But anyway... I've digressed enough.

-C

Let Freedom ring .


charles

[richidoo]

The Grover SX (2m XLR ended) are replacing SC.(dot) from linestage to power amps.
System is Rega Saturn CDP, Modwright 36.5 linestage, CIAudio D200 amps into Spendor SP100 speakers.

Wow, nice system!!!!