Author Topic: What are you listening to right now?  (Read 3082227 times)

Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17070 on: May 25, 2024, 12:21:09 PM »
Talking Heads
Werchter, Festival
Belgium
4 July 1982

Source 1: FM > M-Audio 1010LT > Adobe Audition v2.0 > CD Wave Editor v1.94.5 > Flac Frontend Level 8 > FLAC

Source 2: SBD > ? > CDr > CDwave > WAV > Flac Frontend Level 8 > FLAC

Levels adjusted, edited and crossfaded using Toast 8.0

01.Psycho Killer (FM)
02.Cities (SBD)
03.Big Blue Plymouth (SBD)
04.Once in a Lifetime (FM)
05.Mind (FM)
06.My Big Hands (FM)
07.Big Business (SBD)
08.I Zimbra (SBD)
09.Swamp (SBD)
10.Houses In Motion (FM)
11.Life During Wartime (FM)
12.Take Me To The River  (FM)


FM/SBD edit by CDJones, August 20, 2007 from two sources seeded at DaD by Elprez00. 
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17071 on: May 25, 2024, 01:34:41 PM »
David Lindley & El Rayo-X - August 23, 1987
Calavaras County Fairgrounds - Angel's Camp, CA

Recording Info:
UltraMatrix SBD > PCM Master (Sony Betamax/TDK HS)

Transfer Info:
PCM Master (Sony SL-HF66) > Sony PCM-601ESD > Behringer Ultramatch Pro >
Tascam DA-3000 (16-bit/44.1k) > Samplitude Pro X3 Suite > FLAC/16
(1 Disc Audio / 1 Disc FLAC)

All Transfers and Mastering by Charlie Miller
charliemiller87@earthlink.net
June 8, 2018

Notes:
-- Recorded by Don Pearson
-- Opened for The Grateful Dead (Mountain Aire Festival)

Setlist:
01 - Tuning
02 - Talk To The Lawyer
03 - Texas Tango
04 - She Took Off My Romeos
05 - I Fought The Law
06 - Don't Look Back
07 - I Just Can't Work No Longer
08 - Your Old Lady
09 - Mercury Blues
10 - Bye Bye
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17072 on: May 25, 2024, 02:53:43 PM »
Jeff Beck
Park West
Chicago, IL  (USA)
April 17, 2009

Source:  Audience recording > Sonic Studios DSM-6L > custom battery box/pre-amp > iRiver H120 (16/44) > usb > WAV > Logic Pro 8 (EQ) > Spark XL (reverse L/R, limit loud claps, normalize to -0.5 dB, tracking) > xACT (flac 8 w/ SBA & tags) > FLAC.

CD 1:
01. Beck's Bolero
02. The Pump
03. You Never Know
04. 'Cause We've Ended As Lovers
05. Behind The Veil
06. Blast From The East
07. Stratus
08. Angels (Footsteps)
09. Led Boots

CD 2:
10. Nadia
11. Space Boogie
12. Goodbye Pork Pie Hat > Brush With The Blues
13. Blue Wind
14. (bass duet)(including Freeway Jam)
15. Big Block
16. A Day In The Life
17. (band intros/crowd)
18. Where Were You
19. Scottish One
20. Peter Gunn Theme

Total time = 92:44

Notes:  "This recording has been EQ'd to bring out the bottom end, which was a little thin on the original.  Very slight EQ done to boost the top end also.  Brought to you by a collaborative effort of marksound, shmc, taperj, & taperjoe."

Personnel:
Jeff Beck - guitar
Vinnie Colaiuta - drum
Tal Wilkenfelds - bass
David Sancious - keyboards
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17073 on: May 26, 2024, 12:48:29 PM »
Big Country 1990 05 20 Barrowland Glasgow (UK) (Aud) 48 KHZ

Lineage>Tape>Aiwa Tape Deck>PC>Audacity>FLAC 48 KHZ

The last time i saw them in the Barrowland, scans of cassettes and my ticket are included in this download

01 Restless Natives
02 Look Away
03 Fields Of Fire
04 Adamson - Just A Shadow
05 Broken Heart (Thirteen Valleys)
06 Heart Of The World
07 Porrohman
08 The Seer
09 Come Back to Me (Acoustic)
10 Peace In Our Time (Acoustic)
11 Wonderland
12 Save Me
13 King Of Emotion
14 Chance
15 In A Big Country
16 River Of Hope
17 The Storm
18 Lost Patrol
19 Black Skinned Blue Eyed Boys
20 Rockin' In The Free World

132m 45s

2023/03/26

Uploaded to dime by malcom769.
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17074 on: May 26, 2024, 03:33:59 PM »
moe.
September 23, 1997
Emerald City
Santa Barbara, CA

Source: Set I,III: SBD>DAT; Set II: unknown AUD>DAT
Transfer: DAT>???>CDR>EAC v0.9 beta 4>WAV>FLAC frontend 1.7.1>FLAC

Disc 1
{Set I}
01. intro
02. Awesome Gary
03. Sensory Deprivation Bank
04. Stranger Than Fiction
05. Recreational Chemistry
{Set II}
06. intro
07. Salt Creek
08. You Shook Me All Night Long
09. Blister In The Sun
10. banter
11. Time Again
12. banter
13. Spine Of A Dog
14. Queen Of The Rodeo
15. Farmer Ben tease/crowd/banter

Disc 2
{Set III}
01. intro
02. Recreational Chemistry
03. Waiting FOr The Punchline->
04. Akimbo
05. Water
06. Head

Disc 3
01. intro
02. Nebraska
03. She Sends Me
04. Rebubula
{Encore}
05. crowd/banter
06. I Wanna Be Sedated


« Last Edit: May 26, 2024, 03:51:11 PM by GDHAL »
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17075 on: May 27, 2024, 06:10:13 AM »
Jerry Garcia Band
May 1, 1982
Keystone
Berkeley, CA 

Source: sbd
William Keats' 2nd gen cassette

nakamichi dragon > benchmark adc1 a/d converter 24/96 > adobe audition > xACT flac
transferred by Rob Berger August 2023

Patched and pitched adjusted by David Minches
August 2023

Set 1 

01. The Way You Do The Things You Do (patched 00:00 - 2:36)
02. Sitting In Limbo
03. Valerie  (patched 00:00 - 00:10)
04. I Second That Emotion   
05. Let It Rock (patched 00:00 - 4:46; 6:35 - 7:21)
06. Deal (patched 00:00 - 7:35) 
 

Set 2 

01. Harder They Come 
02. They Love Each Other (patched 00:00 - 00:06)
03. Love In The Afternoon >   
04. Dear Prudence >
05. Tangled Up In Blue (patched 00:00 - 00:20)


Patch source: SHNID# 97549
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17076 on: May 27, 2024, 08:35:21 AM »
THE CARS
May 10, 2011
Showbox SoDo
Seattle, WA

SOURCE:
Panasonic WM-61A > Sound Pro SP-SPSB-2 (195Hz bass roll-off) > Edirol R-09

TRANSFER:
Edirol R-09 > USB > Adobe Audition 3.0 > CD Wave 1.98 > Trader's Little Helper 2.6.0

GENERATION:
WAV(M) [24bit/48kHz] > remaster > WAV [16bit/44.1kHz] > FLAC [Level 8]

LENGTH:
86:41

NOTES:
- The band played "Moving In Stereo" a second time due to issues with the first performance.

TRACKS:
01. intro
02. Good Times Roll
03. Blue Tip
04. Since You're Gone
05. Up And Down
06. My Best Friend's Girl
07. Hits Me
08. Touch And Go
09. I'm In Touch With Your World
10. Keep On Knocking
11. You Might Think
12. Drag On Forever
13. Free
14. I'm Not The One
15. Heartbeat City
16. Let's Go
17. Moving In Stereo
18. Moving In Stereo
19. Sad Song
20. Just What I Needed
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17077 on: May 27, 2024, 10:52:59 AM »
The Cars Milwaukee Summerfest Main Stage Sept. 1, 1980

**This recording is unprocessed. Mistakes from the master are not edited.**

Nice capture of a great show at stonefest, beerfest, summerfest.

ANALOG MASTER RB

About 16th row standing on bleacher benches
Recorder: Technics RS-686DS ANALOG
Tape: Maxell XL-II C-90 Dolby On
Mics: Teac ME-80's (same as CM-300)

Played back on identical machine (Dolby off)>
Chord Co. Cables
Pre-amp: Naim 52
CDR Recorder (Stand Alone): Tascam CDR-2000
CDR: Taiyo Yuden Gold 74-ZY
Master CDR>
PC Drive: UltraPlex40max SCSI
EAC>FLAC>To You Guys, enjoy, RB

BEWARE:(non-perfect) ALL MY RECORDINGS ARE TRACKED ON THE FLY!
Please correct set list. Do Not Process Recording Please.

cd1

Shoo Be Doo
Let's Go
Touch And Go
You're All I've Got Tonight
Misfit Kid
Panorama
Moving In Stereo
Good Times Roll
Don't Tell Me No
Double Life
Bye Bye Love
Candy-O
Just What I Needed
Getting Through
My Best Friend's Girl
Down Boys
Dangerous Type
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17078 on: May 27, 2024, 12:26:07 PM »
 Paul McCartney
 Sun Devil Stadium
 Tempe, AZ
 April 4, 1990
 123-PMWT
 Soundcheck 24-96

Every so often you hit a bump in the road on these projects and that's exactly what happened when I arrived at this soundcheck recording. There are a number of releases of this tape from Yellow Cat to Unbelievable Music as well as some unidentified publishers. And among them a lot of misidentifications of the recording.

Back from day one I had two different source tapes both derived from a DAT soundboard source. One tape 85 minutes in length containing 18 tracks and the other 45 minutes containing 8 tracks. But the longer of the two tapes is sort of a sample tape someone compiled from at least two different soundchecks from different cities. I would imagine there were several sample tapes created while they were working on the official live release from this tour “Tripping the Live Fantastic” which included soundcheck songs. Over the years the 85-minute recording has been attributed to Tempe AZ on April 4th, 1990. And the shorter tape Tampa Florida from the 12th. If you compare both tapes you will find six tracks that are the same on both tapes. If you refer to "Eight Arms to Hold You" they list the proper tracks associated with the correct night. However, there are two tracks from the Tampa section that I am not convinced are Tampa, but I will get into that later on when we visit Florida.

Anyway, this night’s recording is completely from the 85-minute tape with the Florida tracks removed and clocks in at 39:21, enjoy!

Tour band
•Paul McCartney – lead vocals, guitars (acoustic, electric and bass), keyboards
•Linda McCartney – backing vocals, keyboards, percussion
•Hamish Stuart – backing vocals, guitars (acoustic, electric and bass)
•Robbie McIntosh – backing vocals, electric guitar
•Paul "Wix" Wickens – backing vocals, keyboards
•Chris Whitten – drums, percussion


Lineage: Soundboard Recording> Unknown DAT Tape> Soundblaster Audigy FX V2> Adobe Audition> WAV> Flacfrontend> Flac 6> YOU


 01 Warmup Jam
 02 Matchbox
 03 Just Because
 04 All My Trials
 05 C-Moon
 06 Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying
 07 Hit The Road Jack
 08 Soundcheck


Ripped by Atlasstar 7-2023


You might ask what's the point of this series, haven't these shows all been posted before. Well, yes, most if not all of them have been posted before. But the quality of many of them has not been good, plus the lineage of many is pretty much non-existent. Also, there are some that are posted as "source one or two" when in reality are the same recording just from a different poster or cdr. In this series alternate sources means a different taper. Plus, many of the tapes I collected at the time of the tour and are low generation, many 1st or 2nd. Plus a few masters. I am also including relevant material such as press conferences and radio broadcasts from the tour. So that we can have everything collected all in one place.

Please share freely, do not convert to lossy except for personal use. Please trade with the original files after allowing me sufficient time to post on my favorite sites.

All recordings are kept as original as possible with minimal processing. Unless noted otherwise the only adjustments made are Automatic Phase Correction, Level adjustments and cleaning of any rough or abrupt cuts.
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html

Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17079 on: May 27, 2024, 01:13:39 PM »
Paul McCartney & Wings 1976-05-03 TCCC Fort Worth TX (1st Show 2nd Row) (T-555)

I'm the guy who recorded this show.  I have the original analog cassette tapes of it.  Over the years I have traded analog tape copies but until now have never done a digital transfer of it.  This is the first and only time it has been digitally transferred from the original analog cassette tapes.  There are a few bootlegs that exist of this show which were made from analog copies I sent out in trade.

This was the first show of the tour.
The recording location was 2nd row slightly left of dead center.

Mics:  (2) Sony ECM 19B >
Recorder: Sony TC-152 >
Tape:  Sony CRO-90 - these are
       the original analog cassette tapes >
Playback Deck: Tascam 130 >
Nikko 32 Band EQ >
Akai DR16 Digital Hard Disk Recorder >
HHB CDR-800 Compact Disc Recorder >
CDR  > WAV >CD Wave Editor > SHN


I have also done the artwork for this version of this show.   Please keep the artwork and text file, unaltered, together with the SHN's.

Wings:

Paul McCartney
Linda McCartney
Denny Lane
Jimmy McCulloch
Joe English

with Howie Casey
Steve Howard
Thaddeus Richard
Tony Dorsey

disc 1

 1.   (intro)
 2.   Venus And Mars
 3.   Rock Show
 4.   Jet
 5.   Let Me Roll It
 6.   Spirits Of Ancient Egypt
 7.   Medicine Jar
 8.   Maybe I'm Amazed
 9.   Call Me Back Again
10.  Lady Madonna
11.  The Long And Winding Road
12.  Live And Let Die
13.  Picasso's Last Words
14.  Richard Corey
15.  Bluebird
16.  I've Just Seen A Face
17.  Blackbird
18.  Yesterday


disc 2

 1.   You Gave Me The Answer
 2.   Magneto And Titanium Man
 3.   My Love
 4.   Listen To What The Man Said
 5.   Let 'Em In
 6.   Time To Hide
 7.   Silly Love Songs
 8.   Beware My Love
 9.   (band introductions)
10.  Letting Go
11.  Band On The Run
12.  (applause)
13.  Hi Hi Hi
14.  (applause)
15.  Soily


Don't rename directories or file names if you share this.

Paul McCartney & Wings 1976-05-03 TCCC Fort Worth TX (1st Show 2nd Row) (T-555)
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17080 on: May 28, 2024, 02:03:37 PM »
John Coltrane Quartet
June, 24 1963 (4 pm matinee)
Showboat Philadelphia, PA

John Coltrane (ss, ts)
McCoy Tyner (p) (Tracks 4-7, 9, 11; Tyner arrived late)
Jimmy Garrison    (b)
Roy Haynes (d)

1. Chasin' the Trane            10:52
2. It's Easy to Remember          6:43
3. Up 'gainst the Wall              5:40
4. The Inchworm              8:35
5. Impressions (incomplete)          13:27
6. I'm a weaver of dreams (beginning truncated)  7:50
7. Mr. P.C.                 8:54
8. After the Rain (John Coltrane on piano)     5:43

9. Up'gainst  the Wall (Ravi Coltrane source)     5:55
10. Ravi Coltrane interview           2:15
11. It's Easy to Remember (Ravi Coltrane source) 6:59

12. After the rain without hiss reduction    5:30

From "The John Coltrane Reference" (Porter et al.):
"Private recording by Alan Sukoenig, who recorded with a portable tape recorder at the club;
the tapes are currently in the collection of the Institute of Jazz Studies (IJS), Rutgers, New Jersey.
These mono audience recordings are of listenable audio quality; they feature powerful Coltrane solos
(particularly his cadenca on "I'm a weaver of dreams") and deserve to be released through official channels."

The date usually assigned to this concert is June, 10 1963, but if the original taper is right, the real date is
June, 24 1963 (see accompanying file). Note, however, that this date is given in the John Coltrane Reference as a possible date for the Tête d'Art show in Montreal.


Lineage for tracks 1-7:
AUD > ??? > CD-R > EAC > FLAC > Remastering with Har-Bal 3.7 > minor repairs > pitch corrected by -85 cents (according to goody's advice for torrent #296919)

I did not touch tracks 9-12, these and track 8 are from torrent #296919
Artwork by dadoun

=====

About the remastering:

I had three sources to choose from:
1. torrent #184417 uploaded by u014945 in 2008
2. torrent #296919 uploaded by dsgtrane in 2010 (http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=296919)
   (improved version of the previous one, speed corrected according to goody's advice and remastered)
3. A CD-R I received in a trade in the early 2000s. The sound is very similar to #184417, although a bit clearer.

I remastered the recordings with Har-Bal 3.7 which allows for pretty advanced equalization. However, this recording was not easy to remaster. Roy Haynes' drums are very dominant in the bass and cover everything else. I spent quite a few hours with this problem.

I started with the already remastered version #296919, but I was not able to tame the drums without damaging the sound of the saxophone.

I had better success with the CD-R version from the trade. Here I could attenuate the bass drum sound and emphasize the treble. With Har-Bal's approach you roughly match the audio spectrum to a reference recording while keeping its characteristics. I used the Birdland 1963 and Village Vanguard 1961 recordings as targets. Given the limited frequencies range of the present recording, this could of course give only a rough orientation for the sound characteristic.

After equalization, the sound of Trane's saxophone is much richer, with extended frequency range. Roy Haynes' cymbals are clearly audible now, while Jimmy Garrisons bass still is almost completely buried. I hope that I've squeezed out every last bit of sound that was on the tape. These are remarkable performances, quite adventurous.

GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17081 on: May 29, 2024, 06:34:28 AM »
Wayne Shorter - Herbie Hancock Duo
Berlin, Germany
1997-11-08
FM
Quality A++

Lineage: FM -> DAT -> Audiophile 2496 -> Soundforge -> wav -> cd ->
         EAC -> flac

Wayne Shorter (saxes)
Herbie Hancock (piano)

Sentence 1 - Sonrisa (20:44)
Sentence 2 - Aung San Suu Kyi (9:40)
Sentence 3 - Memory Of Enchantment (14:10)
Sentence 4 - Footprints (12:38)
Sentence 5 - Maiden Voyage (19:04)

TOTAL TIME = 76:16
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17082 on: May 29, 2024, 08:00:39 AM »
New Riders of the Purple Sage
3/31/73
War Memorial, Buffalo, NY

source: sbd reel master - Betty Board

lineage: reel>dat>cdrs>eac>flac
encoded by Rob Berger

one disc: 63:36

01: tuning
02: I Don't Know You
03: One Too Many Stories
04: It's All Right With Me
05: Teardrops In My Eyes
06: Hello Mary Lou
07: Sutter's Mill
08: Henry
09: Dim Lights, Thick Smoke (And Loud Loud Music)
10: You Should've Seen Me Runnin'
11: I Don't Need No Doctor
12: Glendale Train
13: Willie And The Handjive

notes: opened for Grateful Dead
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17083 on: May 29, 2024, 10:13:37 AM »
Peter Tosh
1978-03-08
The Bottom Line Club
New York City

Pristine Soundboard Recording

CDR > Flac (dBpoweramp comp level 1)


01. 400 Years
02. Stepping Razor
03. Pick Myself Up
04. African
05. Burial
06. Soon Come
07. The Toughest
08. Bush Doctor
09. (You Gotta Walk) Don't Look Back
10. Get Up, Stand Up
11. Babylon Queendom
12. Jam

Running Time : 1:13:53
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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  • All we need is music, sweet music
Re: What are you listening to right now?
« Reply #17084 on: May 29, 2024, 11:42:51 AM »
moe.
06/23/1997
Jack Straw's
Charlotte, NC

**16 bit/48khz**

Source: SBD>DAT (48 khz)
Transfer: Sony PCM-2600(Apogee AES/EBU)>Sound Devices 722 (16/48)>
Firewire>Macbook>Sound Studio 3.6(fades, normalize peak, +gain, track)>
xACT 2.18(align on sector boundaries, encode, tag, fingerprint)>flac16 (level 8 )
DAT clone provided by: Craig Hillwig
Transferred and seeded by: Lenny Stubbe

One Set: (1:20:28)

01. intro
02. Recreational Chemistry>
03. Dark Star jam>
04. Recreational Chemistry
05. Salt Creek
06. Rebubula
07. Happy Birthday Russell/banter

Notes:
- Brief Spirit of Radio (Rush) tease in the Rebubula intro. This is not noted on any setlist, but I heard it and am noting it!
- Surprise late night show after Furthur Festival at Blockbuster Pavilion in Charlotte
- Salt Creek with Russ and Cito on keyboard and mandolin from the Other People, and Wildman Steve on washboard
- Rebubula contas a Playin in the Band (Grateful Dead) tease
- intro track is over 7 minutes and contains lots of banter and tunings
- left channel was much higher than the right channel.  Right channel boosted 3 db to compensate
- A previous resampled transfer in 44.1 khz from a different DAT exists
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