Author Topic: Voicing Strategy?  (Read 6053 times)

miklorsmith

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Voicing Strategy?
« on: February 24, 2007, 07:48:59 AM »
How do people voice their systems?  For a long time, I was of the holistic/subtractive camp.  This would basically be taking a temperature of the system as a whole, removing one piece, and replacing that piece.  This has some appeal, as it doesn't require a surplus of gear.  One item comes, one item goes, net zero.  Well, since you paid more for the replacement than the outgoing, not quite zero in the net.   :wink:

Lately though, this strikes me as a terribly haphazard way to go about things.  All the assessments I've been doing have been on the Red Wine Amps, as they are extremely transparent and pretty darn neutral.  They don't have a tremendous personality of their own and really let me hear what's going on upstream.  I don't have an analog preamp and this is something I will need to have with the system reconfiguration.

While I don't think a TVC will be my ultimate choice for enjoyment of the system, it will be an excellent companion to the Red Wine amps in the transparency department.

The Lessloss DAC is neutrally voiced and it turns out the Definitions aren't as inherently warm as I thought they were.

The natural conclusion I'm getting to is I think having a set of gears on-hand to maximize overall system transparency and neutrality will make it MUCH easier to evaluate incoming components.  Maybe this thought derives from all the thinking I've been doing related to my new post, but I think for an active audiophile it makes a lot of sense.  How else to better evaluate a new whatever than to drop it into a system chosen for to highlight the newcomer?

Of course, this means you might have a couple of different "fun" combos available, mixing warmer, more "colored" gear with the bleached glass stuff.  It also means you'll probably have a couple of different preamps and amps laying around which isn't financially viable for a lot of folks.

How do you approach this age-old puzzle?

WEEZ

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Voicing Strategy?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2007, 08:25:23 AM »
For me, I always try for as 'neutral' as I think I can find.  :?

( Admittedly, it's easier said than done) but in the long run, the music  sounds more natural if I'm not listening to the 'gear'.

I think that there is a misconception floating around many audio boards that neutral gear sounds sterile or boring. I simply don't buy that argument. 'Sterile' is a coloring just like 'warmth' is a coloring. If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose 'warmth', but neutral gear is neither.

WEEZ

WEEZ

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Voicing Strategy?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2007, 04:00:04 PM »
I've thought a bit more on this..and I haven't changed my mind :shock: .

I was listening to some cd's this afternoon; and a few in particular couldn't be further apart from one another in terms of instumentation and tonality:

"Good People in Times of Evil" (Hellborg, Lane, & Selvaganesh); "The Ultimate Adventure" (Chick Corea); and "Tower of Power Live"-Soul Vaccination (Tower of Power). From acoustic guitar, to acoustic piano, to electric and brass...I was "just right" with all of it. :D

If someone listens to only chamber music, I suppose they could 'tune' their system to their liking..but they wouldn't necessarily have to...neutral is good for everything  :lol:

Mike, now that you're in the 'reviewing' business..it's probably even more important to stay neutral..in more ways than one. (ah, I'm just kidding)

WEEZ!

Double Ugly

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Voicing Strategy?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2007, 04:26:59 PM »
First, I'll restate the obvious in saying everyone's idea of "neutral" is different.

That said, depending on what's being played and the instruments involved, my experience is that live, unamplified music does have a warmth to it - an organic presence if you will.  Consequently, that fact (and it is a fact to me) takes a lot of wind out of the negative connotation(s) so often associated with the word "warm."  It depends on the context, yes, but IMO any system worth its salt has the ability to accurately convey the pitch, timbre and resonance of instruments, and that process sometimes necessitates the ability to convey warmth.

Lastly, my system is and always has been built around the most neutral, most colorless speakers I can find so I can hear what the rest of the system is doing.  That's what a real transducer is supposed to do IMO - transmit what it's given, nothing more, nothing less.  What this approach allows is the building of a system tailor-suited to the ear of the owner, or at a minimum it better facilitates tuning the system to the sonic wants, need and desires of the listener.  

I guess all that's to say that (1) I begin "voicing" (for lack of a better word) my system with the truest transducer I can find, and (2) that neutral done properly does include the ability to convey warmth.

The preceding is the opinion of Double Ugly, and may not in any way reflect the thoughts, feelings, beliefs, morals or values of anyone else on planet earth.  Even so, that's his story and he's sticking to it.  :D

Offline bpape

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Voicing Strategy?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2007, 04:33:46 PM »
Realistically, the job of EVERY component of your system is to pass what it is given unchanged - speakers are no different than anything else.

However, a speaker is the one thing that must be treated differently.  A speaker has to interact with the room, where it is located, where you are sitting, etc.  I mean Quad ESL57's are great - but not in a 25x40x12 room.  Maggie MG20-s are great, but not in a 10x12 room that has a bed in it and for someone who listens to rock and roll.

Both speakers are pretty good 'neutral' transducers but both work in different places better than the other.

Bryan
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Double Ugly

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Voicing Strategy?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2007, 07:50:14 AM »
Quote from: "bpape"
Realistically, the job of EVERY component of your system is to pass what it is given unchanged - speakers are no different than anything else.
Yeah, but as I said above, how are you going to know if the other components in the chain are neutral (or whatever you're looking for) if the speakers themselves aren't?

Further, I don't know about realistically.  'Ideally' perhaps, but even then I'd say maybe, maybe not.  

More than a few I know use speakers and components to tailor the sound to suit them (warmer, usually).  Normally they already have a favorite component - often the speakers - and look to warm the presentation with sources, preamps, amps or sometimes even DACs.  I know a recording/mixing/mastering engineer who looks for just the opposite (mind-numbingly analytical), and he, too, began with the most neutral speakers he could find.  To that I say to each his own.

What sets the speakers apart IMO is that they're at the end of the chain.  In my past searches, perhaps the biggest problem was finding the truly neutral speaker, because it's difficult to hear a speaker in enough systems or with enough different components with which I'm familiar to make a valid determination before purchasing.



Quote from: "bpape"
However, a speaker is the one thing that must be treated differently.  A speaker has to interact with the room, where it is located, where you are sitting, etc.  I mean Quad ESL57's are great - but not in a 25x40x12 room.  Maggie MG20-s are great, but not in a 10x12 room that has a bed in it and for someone who listens to rock and roll.

Both speakers are pretty good 'neutral' transducers but both work in different places better than the other.
True, but IME that's more of a "room too big", "room too small"  or just a plain ol' "wrong room" situation.  Might even be a bad room scenario wherein no speaker belongs, and seems to have more to do with experience and (to a degree) common sense than voicing to me.

IOW, the speakers will still be relatively neutral in the wrong room, but they'll sound like crap.

-Jim

Offline bpape

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Voicing Strategy?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2007, 07:57:30 AM »
Right - kinda.  The speaker will still be neutral but what you hear won't be.  That's because you don't just hear the speaker.  You hear the speaker/room combination.  Guess that was my point.

I'll agree and admit to selecting components to tailor the sound.  It's usually the preamp in my case.  

I get a speaker that sounds good to me in my room.  I select an amp that is capable of driving that speaker to levels I like to listen at and also capable of controlling the speaker properly.  Then, if I need to tweak things, I use the preamp (or mods to it) to get the last little bit the way I want it.

Bryan
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Double Ugly

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Voicing Strategy?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2007, 08:07:30 AM »
Quote from: "bpape"
Right - kinda.  The speaker will still be neutral but what you hear won't be.  That's because you don't just hear the speaker.  You hear the speaker/room combination.  Guess that was my point.
Yeah, I started to change that last line to closer reflect what you just said, but instead executed a perfect Air Force salute (shoulder shrug) and hit submit.  You and I are in complete agreement here, I believe.  


Quote from: "bpape"
I'll agree and admit to selecting components to tailor the sound.  It's usually the preamp in my case.  
I think it's the component of choice for most.


Quote from: "bpape"
I get a speaker tat sounds good to me in my room.  I select an amp that is capable of driving that speaker to levels I like to listen at and also capable of controlling the speaker properly.  Then, if I need to tweak things, I use the preamp (or mods to it) to get the last little bit the way I want it.
IMO, you have an extremely valid system-selection process in place.  While I may or may not agree with your system's voicing, I'd bet dollars to donuts I'd appreciate the quality of sound you've achieved.

-Jim

Offline bpape

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Voicing Strategy?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2007, 08:58:08 AM »
And that's what it's all about.  I've heard many very good sounding systems that I could easily live with and even if not, I can appreciate what they're doing.  ...and they all sound different.

It's a matter of what's important to the owner, what tradeoffs he's willing to make, listening habits, musical tastes, etc.  If I only listened to jazz, vocal, and chamber music and had a moderate sized room, I can't think of anything I'd rather listen to than a pair of Quad 57's and Futterman OTL1 amps.  For what I listen to and the room I have, it would still sound good but not be something I'd want to live with.

Bryan
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Double Ugly

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Voicing Strategy?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2007, 12:37:33 PM »
Quote from: "bpape"
And that's what it's all about.  
Yep!

-Jim