Author Topic: And she's got a great personality  (Read 342 times)

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 897
    • Reference components
Re: And she's got a great personality
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2021, 01:01:20 PM »
I have found a 12" woofer can sound both tight/accurate, and the bottom and with chest dynamic punch with FR spec of -3db at 28-29 hz and down 13db at ~19 hz. However, I use the large box approach.

cheers

steve

« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 01:04:33 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (retired, owner, SAS Audio Labs)
"V" Very Low Capacitance ICs, 40pf 1 meter
SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Tube Reference Preamplifier
SAS Audio Labs 25 W Triode Reference Monoblocks
2 way test Spkrs, 28 - 20khz  -3db (28hz)

Offline James Edward

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 578
Re: And she's got a great personality
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2021, 02:44:00 PM »
I guess I misspoke somehow.
The question was is can you have both, clean tight fast LF and still have
the authoritative bass. Wouldn't it have to linger in the room and thus be slow(er)
and not as clean?

Thanks
Don
You kind of have a point. Thump your chest bass is higher up- 40-70 Hz? Or so… I have had many subs, and my favorite until now was an Hsu ported sub with a 10” woofer- it didn’t do much 20 Hz bass, but it was punchy as hell.

We all, me included, want 20 Hz, but in reality, I think we crave something a little higher- that’s where the ‘meat’ is… Really low bass is ‘wooly’ for lack of a better term unless it’s in a very large room or venue.

I currently use a sealed Hsu sub in my music only system, and have the ‘Q’ dialed down all the way- it’s a way to tighten things up considerably. Look up speaker ‘Q’ and you’ll read what I mean.

Since I hate when people tout what they have is best, I will say that Rhytmik’s way of doing things also keeps it tight, and I’ve heard some open baffle subs at a club member’s home that also kicked ass. Again I’ll mention SVS for their truly pain and dollar free trial.

Ultimately, if you tried a sub 10-15 years ago and didn’t like the resulting sound, try one again. They’ve only gotten better- my current Hsu bests the REL I had 10 years at less than half the cost.
Luxman L- 590 AX MK2
Esoteric K-07X
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB
Audience Au24SE
PI Cat6
Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S
Hsu ULS-15 Mk2

Supra Classic 6.0

Offline P.I.

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 1161
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: And she's got a great personality
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2021, 04:36:20 PM »
I guess I misspoke somehow.
The question was is can you have both, clean tight fast LF and still have
the authoritative bass. Wouldn't it have to linger in the room and thus be slow(er)
and not as clean?

Thanks
Don
:thumb:


You kind of have a point. Thump your chest bass is higher up- 40-70 Hz? Or so… I have had many subs, and my favorite until now was an Hsu ported sub with a 10” woofer- it didn’t do much 20 Hz bass, but it was punchy as hell.

We all, me included, want 20 Hz, but in reality, I think we crave something a little higher- that’s where the ‘meat’ is… Really low bass is ‘wooly’ for lack of a better term unless it’s in a very large room or venue.

I currently use a sealed Hsu sub in my music only system, and have the ‘Q’ dialed down all the way- it’s a way to tighten things up considerably. Look up speaker ‘Q’ and you’ll read what I mean.

Since I hate when people tout what they have is best, I will say that Rhytmik’s way of doing things also keeps it tight, and I’ve heard some open baffle subs at a club member’s home that also kicked ass. Again I’ll mention SVS for their truly pain and dollar free trial.

Ultimately, if you tried a sub 10-15 years ago and didn’t like the resulting sound, try one again. They’ve only gotten better- my current Hsu bests the REL I had 10 years at less than half the cost.
Bass is difficult.  So many systems are too full at ~ 80Hz which is the 'mud zone'.  Punchy bass is the 40Hz - 60Hz realm and definition is in the 100Hz to 200Hz area.  Kick drums that have a definite 'click' on the attack have a boost around 2KHz.  The 10Hz to 40Hz response area is where concert drum and lots of synths generate a bunch of energy.  As a recording engineer I can tell you that we regard that as the "foundation" for higher frequencies.  Without that frequency realm, C0 and C1 on pipe organs and orchestral music just lack oomph.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 04:39:51 PM by P.I. »
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline doug s.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 682
Re: And she's got a great personality
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2021, 08:58:07 PM »
i respectfully disagree.  say a pair of well integrated subwoofers, and i'm all in.   8)

doug s.
Nothing beats a good pair of speakers with a well integrated sub-woofer...

Offline doug s.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 682
Re: And she's got a great personality
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2021, 09:03:54 PM »
imo, even full-range speakers flat into the 20's will typically sound better if actively crossed over to a pair of quality subs. (which is why many high end speakers are actually 4-unit speakers, w/subwoofer towers already provided.

when i first bought subs, my mains were thiel 3.5's, which were something like 2db down at 20hz.  yes, they sounded great as-is.  but crossing them over to good subs made the bass better, and also made the thiels sound better.

ymmv,

doug s.

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11033
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: And she's got a great personality
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2021, 10:34:53 AM »
I had a pair of Thiel 3.5s as well. Remember they went down to 20hz only with the use of a line level equalizer device. While it boosted the bass it was not kind to the rest of the frequencies.  JSP Labs, before they were making those purple cables, mad a device for the 3.5s called the Magic Flutes. The were a higher quality equalizer with a gentler slope that retained most  of the bass boost while doing less harm to everything else. (My dealer told me that Jim Thiel actually preferred the speakers without the EQ box, but he felt that from a marketing perspective he would have a very hard time selling a speaker at that price point that at least on paper did not go down to 20Hz.)

Of course the best way to handle the problem was to boost the bass with a sub (or 2) and get rid of the EQ box completely. I remember them sounding really nice with a pair of Vandersteen subs.  :D
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 10:37:14 AM by tmazz »
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline doug s.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 682
Re: And she's got a great personality
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2021, 02:54:53 PM »
yup, i got rid of the thiel eq.  i still have the vmps larger subs (snce updated w/megawoofers quite a few years ago), and still using a marchand outboard x-over.

vmps subs show you can get quality and quantity true low end bass w/o breaking the bank.  there are other comparable options available today.

doug s.
I had a pair of Thiel 3.5s as well. Remember they went down to 20hz only with the use of a line level equalizer device. While it boosted the bass it was not kind to the rest of the frequencies.  JSP Labs, before they were making those purple cables, mad a device for the 3.5s called the Magic Flutes. The were a higher quality equalizer with a gentler slope that retained most  of the bass boost while doing less harm to everything else. (My dealer told me that Jim Thiel actually preferred the speakers without the EQ box, but he felt that from a marketing perspective he would have a very hard time selling a speaker at that price point that at least on paper did not go down to 20Hz.)

Of course the best way to handle the problem was to boost the bass with a sub (or 2) and get rid of the EQ box completely. I remember them sounding really nice with a pair of Vandersteen subs.  :D