PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS

[dpatters]

Newbie here.  My DigiBuss should arrive next week. It will be installed between my UberBuss and my digital front end. Also have full loom of TWL PCs in the system.  I'll report back with impressions.

Thanks to rollo for breaking it in for me while I'm away on vacation

Don P.

[tmazz]

Welcome aboard Don!

[dpatters]

Welcome aboard Don!

Thanks tmazz.  Been on Audiocircle a couple years (dpatters).  Moved over here to follow Dave at PI Audio and see what else is happening on this site. I'm also on Audiogon as Dpatterson

[rollo]

  Hey Don welcome aboard. Break in takes a bit longer than anticipated. Still changing after 150 hours my customers are reporting back.
   The Uber Buss took a little over 400 hours to stop changing and when it did OOOh la la.
   

charles

[Werd]

It would be nice to try one of these ..... nudge nudge wink wink say no more.

[tmazz]

It would be nice to try one of these ..... nudge nudge wink wink say no more.

[P.I.]

It would be nice to try one of these ..... nudge nudge wink wink say no more.

Subtle ootzes are not lost on me.  Rollo and I are in cahoots to have some traveling demos of the Uber and DigiBUSS available for audition. There will need to be credit card surety and prepayment for shipment to the auditioner, but beyond that knock yourself out.  I'm going to try to get these to him before we leave for the Bonamassa Blues Alive at Sea cruise Feb 14 - 20.  No promises... I'm still having some supply issues, but have pieces/parts inbound.

Will that work?

[rollo]

    Da proof is in da pudding. The shock and Awe tour oh my !!!


charles

[Werd]

I am game 

Dave you should you use your skills and turn the digbuss into a transformer based unit. Put a transformer ahead of that fancy wiring you got. Build a 10amp using 2- 120 volt 5 amp phases out to 120 volt single phase. Even front ends sound like their on nitro on 240 volt. 

[tmazz]

I am game 

Dave you should you use your skills and turn the digbuss into a transformer based unit. Put a transformer ahead of that fancy wiring you got. Build a 10amp using 2- 120 volt 5 amp phases out to 120 volt single phase. Even front ends sound like their on nitro on 240 volt. 

While I agree that using balanced power can be the best way to go, I am not sure how practical it would be to build that intio a unit like a digibuss. For this to work you could not just feed the unit with any two 120v feeds, but rather you would need to have two separate feeds, one from the A buss and one from the B buss of your incoming service. Secondly, the two feeds would need to be very close to one another because if they were different lengths you could end up wit ground loop problems between the two feeds. The chances of that happening in a normal residential situation is pretty slim. What you would really need is a 240 outlet run to the room where the system is. And even then I am not sure it would be the best of ideas since 240 to 120 transformers then to vibrate mechanically produce an audible hum that most audiophiles would find objectionable in their listening room. For this reason balanced power transformers are almost always located right by the service panel and the balanced 120v is then run to the listening room via a dedicated circuit.

Now perhaps Dave could come up with a new balanced power unit that would combine his filtering magic with a 240/120 transformer in a form factor that would wall mount by your panel, but I am just not sure it would be practical add that functionality to the Digibuss as it sits now.

[P.I.]

Gentlemen, 

Balanced power: been there done that will not go back for a home system.  Transformers can be a bigger PITA than most people are will to deal with.  They can be a great solution 'in some instances', but are not a cure all.  The biggest issue is current limiting.

When Philips Semiconductor closed here in 2002 there were a lot of Topaz Ultra Isolation transformers that went on the surplus market.  I bought a couple of the ultra low capacitance 2.5KVA T5's at that time for $75.00 each.  They are not balanced but offer noise suppression > 120dB.  My system at the time was comprised of Cary CAD572SE Mk.ii, an over the top modified sLP50-B preamp and a 306 CD player.  Even with the fairly constant current draw of the system the onlt time it did not sound compressed was with the transformer feeding an UberBUSS so the PFC network would provide the instantaneous current need during transients.  One one think that a 20A supply to class A amps would do the job on amps that drew a total of <450W.  Didn't.  It weighs 60 pounds and has a weighted noise component of 30dBA at 450Btu/hour.  Works great in the crawlspace under the house protecting the flatscreen and related gear.  Best surge protection going.

If you want black, velvety dynamics the UberBUSS was created to do that job. This MiniBUSS and DigiBUSS are built for specialized applications at low cost.  The Uber is all about heavy lifting in the SQ arena.  Charles will have a broken in Uber as well as DigiBUSS for traveling audition next week.  After all, I build all things in the power treatment arena, even a surge protector (BUSS-Stop)... even though I am a proponent of whole house panel mount surge protectors.  There's something for everyone.  If not I'll design/build.  All you have to have is time and money.

[Werd]

I am game 

Dave you should you use your skills and turn the digbuss into a transformer based unit. Put a transformer ahead of that fancy wiring you got. Build a 10amp using 2- 120 volt 5 amp phases out to 120 volt single phase. Even front ends sound like their on nitro on 240 volt. 

While I agree that using balanced power can be the best way to go, I am not sure how practical it would be to build that intio a unit like a digibuss. For this to work you could not just feed the unit with any two 120v feeds, but rather you would need to have two separate feeds, one from the A buss and one from the B buss of your incoming service. Secondly, the two feeds would need to be very close to one another because if they were different lengths you could end up wit ground loop problems between the two feeds. The chances of that happening in a normal residential situation is pretty slim. What you would really need is a 240 outlet run to the room where the system is. And even then I am not sure it would be the best of ideas since 240 to 120 transformers then to vibrate mechanically produce an audible hum that most audiophiles would find objectionable in their listening room. For this reason balanced power transformers are almost always located right by the service panel and the balanced 120v is then run to the listening room via a dedicated circuit.

Now perhaps Dave could come up with a new balanced power unit that would combine his filtering magic with a 240/120 transformer in a form factor that would wall mount by your panel, but I am just not sure it would be practical add that functionality to the Digibuss as it sits now.

My Torus Rm20 is dead quiet.  It's a dual phase 120v 10amp service. It gives me a 120V 20 amp at the outlets. It's better for the front end than amps.... Lol

[Werd]

Gentlemen, 

Balanced power: been there done that will not go back for a home system.  Transformers can be a bigger PITA than most people are will to deal with.  They can be a great solution 'in some instances', but are not a cure all.  The biggest issue is current limiting.

When Philips Semiconductor closed here in 2002 there were a lot of Topaz Ultra Isolation transformers that went on the surplus market.  I bought a couple of the ultra low capacitance 2.5KVA T5's at that time for $75.00 each.  They are not balanced but offer noise suppression > 120dB.  My system at the time was comprised of Cary CAD572SE Mk.ii, an over the top modified sLP50-B preamp and a 306 CD player.  Even with the fairly constant current draw of the system the onlt time it did not sound compressed was with the transformer feeding an UberBUSS so the PFC network would provide the instantaneous current need during transients.  One one think that a 20A supply to class A amps would do the job on amps that drew a total of <450W.  Didn't.  It weighs 60 pounds and has a weighted noise component of 30dBA at 450Btu/hour.  Works great in the crawlspace under the house protecting the flatscreen and related gear.  Best surge protection going.

If you want black, velvety dynamics the UberBUSS was created to do that job. This MiniBUSS and DigiBUSS are built for specialized applications at low cost.  The Uber is all about heavy lifting in the SQ arena.  Charles will have a broken in Uber as well as DigiBUSS for traveling audition next week.  After all, I build all things in the power treatment arena, even a surge protector (BUSS-Stop)... even though I am a proponent of whole house panel mount surge protectors.  There's something for everyone.  If not I'll design/build.  All you have to have is time and money.

I can assure you this Torus does not hold back on transient current. I agree though, one might need at least a 20 amp service at the outlets. It's got to be overkill even for the front end. 15 amp service fed from a regular house mains maybe not for amps in current restrictions. I have heard Torus RM15s but not in my house so I am not sure.  But that's for amps, for front end it can be less but the dual phase just keeps it lit. It's the way to go where I am.

Dual phase for current is like what voltage regulation is for 120V.  The thing is in constant supply and never sees a saturated core.. It's a thing of sonic beauty. I think the reason why it's so quiet to is that there is a 120V 20 amp feed in with a 120V 20 amp feed out. I am not sure if the 30 or 60 amp services are noisy. Might be.

[tmazz]

One thing I have learned through experience with power products and audio is that there are never seem to be any absolutes. I have had things that worked wonders in my house that I brought to a friends  and they sounded like crap and things that did basically nothing for me that made wondrous changes somewhere else. I am sure it all has to do with what exactly of no perfect about your power in your house vs somebody else's power situation. So if that transformer is working well for you, go with it and enjoy.

[Werd]

One thing I have learned through experience with power products and audio is that there are never seem to be any absolutes. I have had things that worked wonders in my house that I brought to a friends  and they sounded like crap and things that did basically nothing for me that made wondrous changes somewhere else. I am sure it all has to do with what exactly of no perfect about your power in your house vs somebody else's power situation. So if t4hat transformer is working well for you, go with it and enjoy.

Dude! I gurantee (and I mean 150% gaurantee) if you plugged your front end including preamp Into a 240v dual phase conditioner you would have a completely different perspective. Only because dual phase is meant for audio like a momma's booby is for her baby. The trick is to get the thing down to 120V service quietly using a transformer that doesn't hold back current.

I do not have my amps into the Torus. Well my Bryston I didn't and my Chapter doesn't work. My Chapter turns on but no music plays. Its a mystery. But my Bryston14Bsst2 sounded like it was too close to another huge transformer. My old 4Bsst/2 sounded lit. Totally charged and ready to go. My 140 watt Blue Circle spanked my 4B when I had into the Torus240 compared to the 4B in the wall. Both in the wall the Blue Circle could not keep up to the 4B.