Author Topic: Tubes back in the house  (Read 7324 times)

jrebman

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Tubes back in the house
« on: August 11, 2007, 06:37:50 AM »
It's been at least a year and a half now of SS amplification (and very decent at that), but yesterday my new Cayin A-70T KT-88 integrated arrived and the Sig 70s were benched for the new guy to take a crack at the Adagios.

Ok, fresh out of the box, 20 minutes of warm up and two passes of bias adjustments and the SACD of Jorma and friends "Blue Mountain Heart" started to spin...  OMG!

Tubes are back and they're hear to stay!

Yeah, like any new amp, especially one with brand new current production tubes, things are a bit congested, hazy, and just have that "I'm waking up here" sound, but still, tone, dimensionality, voices, etc. were all just in a completely different league.  There is plenty of detail, yet with a warmish touch, and what really took me completely by surprise was the bass... Not only was it there, but it was really there, and even more unbelieveably, it was deeper, smoother, more focused, yet with every bit as much oomph as the Sig 70s.  (*That* was not what I was expecting at all, and once the neighbors wake up the NY Rave CD is going to get some play time :D.

Here's one thing that really struck me -- I was sitting well right of the sweet spot, and although the balance was obviously more tilted to the right speaker, there was still a very decent 3D soundstage.  With the SS amps, once out of the sweet spot you lose most of the dimensionality.  The speakers had to be moved during the amp swap so where nowhere near critical alignment (which seems to be even more important than normal with the Adagios) and still this great holographic presentation,.

All I can keep thinking of is what all this is going to sound like in the new location (with the speakers further apart and further into the room), the new Mapleshade rack, better power, better tubes, the Grovers, the Modwright mods to the 3910, etc., etc., etc..

Dare I say that this may be end-game audio for me?  Certainly there will be tweaks, but in my audio world, the thing that has been hardest for me to find is a great amp/speaker/room synergy, which I have always believed to be the basic foundation on which to build a system.  Sources are generally easier to find in whatever flavor you might prefer, and often a lot less hassle to swap, break-in, etc.

I really have to thank Rich for pointing me to this amp as a possibility.  I had known about Cayin, but until this recent amp came out they were always further down the short list, but a lot of research into the amps on the list, talking with dealers who sold the amps in question as well as the Adagios, and this one just stood out as something that needed to be tried.  Thanks also to Phil Lam who sold me the amp and gave me the straight poop on the combination of it and the Adagios.

Audio is fun again! :D

-- Jim
« Last Edit: August 11, 2007, 06:48:59 AM by jrebman »

Offline richidoo

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2007, 09:35:41 AM »
woohooo!

end-game??  :shock:   I think that's just not in the cards for you, my friend!

Congrats Jim!
Rich

jrebman

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2007, 10:41:29 AM »
Rich,

Ok, let's put a qualifier on that -- at my current income level, we'll say :D.

Yup, if I ever dig up a treasure chest I'll be off to the land of Kharma, Lamm, Meittner, Brinkman, etc. :-)  Considering that a system like that would cost more than my house, it's a good bet that I'll be staying right where I am.

I just got done listening to the live Stevie Ray cut of Tin Pan Alley on the NY Rave disk and it was a whole new experience.  For the first time in a very long time, I completely forgot about the system and just let myself be in that blues club surrounded by the musicians and their gear, the smell of stale smoke, cheap beer and sweaty people.

I really can't wait to see what happens when everything really breaks in and gels.  I do know it's going to make me happy for a good long time.

Ready for a Minimax pre? :-)

-- Jim

Offline rollo

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2007, 07:03:21 AM »
jrebmam,

               Good luck with you new Cayin. There is a lot to be said about the advantages of an intergrated done right. Phil certainly pointed you in the right direction. The advantage of the short signal path from pre to amp is a good thing. One less power cord and IC is another good thing.
          Now be a good boy and let that sucker break in for 400 Hrs and DO NOT change a thing until you really get a handle on what you have. You will hear what the Adagio's are capable of with the Cayin. By all means do not add a pre to the mix as Cayin got this piece right and you will loose the synergy you now have.
          If you want to spend some money forgrt the rack and buy the speaker cable that gives you the best synergy with the Cayin and Adagio's. A better CDP or TT may also be considered.. The front end is key to better sound. I am sure Phil can reccomend the matching CDP. Well again happy listening, IMO you will be quite happy with your choice.


  rollo 
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jrebman

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2007, 07:49:45 AM »
Rollo,

Thanks, and yes, the synergy is really something -- the best I've found with the Adagios and my room yet.

As for the rack, I already have it, and based on my experience with my baby Mapleshade rack, it's going to be great -- plus as the system is being moved to the other side of the room I do need a rack since the one on the side where it is now is bolted to the wall and not suitable for audio equipment.  The main shelf is only 18" deep with no opening behind (which means you could potentially put the Cayin on it, but couldn't get ICs or a power cord into it.  Then the shelves above that are only 11" deep, an even worse situation.  With the new setup the speakers will be able to be further apart and much further from the wall, which is also very good for these.

I'm very happy with my sources -- a Denon 3910 which will be going to Dan Wright for the Ultimate Truth mods and a tube rectified external PSU, and a VPI HW-19 with a Scout bearing and platter and Technics EPA-100 arm with Sumiko Blackbird.  Then there is the SB3 with Bolder Statement mods and Ultimate PS/Summit cable.  Right now the only thing I'm lacking in the source department is a phono stage, and that will be a Minimax once I have the cash.  The new speaker cables are already on order -- Realitys, but if we ever have a Grover SC tour, I'll definitely sign up for that, at least to hear them.

It's really only going to get better from here on out, and while the basic synergy is there, all I'll be doing is fine tuning it.  I'm just not at all concerned that I'm going to ruin anything -- I've been doing this for a while and think I know my gear pretty well.  In short, I've made enough mistakes over the years to mostly know at least what not to do.

-- Jim

Offline rollo

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2007, 08:19:57 AM »
Cool, sounds like your in good shape. Enjoy!

   rollo
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Offline Bill O'Connell

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2007, 09:34:35 AM »
One of my biggest regrets was selling a Oracle Mark2 turntable with the EPA-100 tonearm, Loved that tonearm and wish I had it back.
 The other regret was a pair of Tannoy GRF Professional cabinets in Rosewood that were made from the Tannoy blueprints.(8 foot folded horn) meticulously built. Sold to some lucky guy in Canada, about 420 lbs per speaker( no wonder I had a heck of a time moving them around) :duh
Bill O'Connell,
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jrebman

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2007, 11:22:33 AM »
Bill,

I've only heard it once when I went to pick up the table -- bought it on agon a couple years back and the guy was local so it didn't have to ship -- and from what I heard and from what others have said, it's going to be a real treat.

Oh, good thing I didn't know you were selling those Tannoys, but I'm sure Linda thanks you :D.

There will be an order coming for a phono pre once I have the dough.

Your gear is great Bill, and if I could afford to keep everything, I surely would.  Looking forward to seeing those monster monoblocks in Wayne's room.

-- Jim

Offline richidoo

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2007, 03:28:04 PM »

Offline Bunky

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2007, 06:23:40 AM »
Tubes Rule!
Remember, information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music; music is the best.
-- Frank Zappa

Offline richidoo

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2007, 06:41:59 AM »
Hey Bunky, how many tubes are you running at one time? Over 30? :D

I'm up to 13.

Offline Bunky

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2007, 08:15:22 AM »
Hey Bunky, how many tubes are you running at one time? Over 30? :D

I'm up to 13.

Lets see :-k , i have 12 tubes in the VK 60 including four 6C33C-B power triodes and eight 6SN7's for the input and the drivers. two 12AX7 tubes in the HRAM stage 3+ modded Jolida JD100A CD player and two 6922 tubes in the SAS 10A tube linestage. OK Rich, i have never thought about it before but i am using 16 tubes total in the tube rig and i alternate between a pair of circa 1955 CBS Hytron 5814's or circa 1962 Amperex Holland ECC186/7316 PQ's in my Candela tube pre that is in my SS powered rig. :lol: thanks....WCW III
Remember, information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music; music is the best.
-- Frank Zappa

Offline richidoo

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2007, 09:48:28 AM »
Thanks, I guess I was remembering your proposition to get another BAT and run them as monoblocks. Still 18 tubes is not too shabby! ;)   I'm working on a preamp now so I will soon be at either 15 or 16. Monoblocks is the key to getting the tube count way up there. hahaha

Offline djbnh

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2007, 02:45:38 PM »
In my vintage system located in the basement weight room I run a Fisher 800B receiver (circa '61). 22 NOS tubes in that unit.
“If I discover within myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.”   C.S. Lewis

Offline Bunky

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Re: Tubes back in the house
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2007, 03:41:06 PM »
In my vintage system located in the basement weight room I run a Fisher 800B receiver (circa '61). 22 NOS tubes in that unit.
Hey Dave, if i recall correctly it was originally your Fathers reciever. i bet it sounds really nice :D
Remember, information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music; music is the best.
-- Frank Zappa