DSD and DAC upgrades

[jimbones]

Hi All,

My next purchase is going to be a USB converter by K+J Kenny. However, I ws considering a new DAC. I currecntly have a Burson 160D. Love it as a combo headphone/Pre/DAC, but things have been progressing very rapidly in the digital world and DSD intrigues me. Besides, I could probably get more performance from a newer DAC anyway. Any suggestions? I'd like to stay around $1500

[machinehead]

What about the Matrix X-Sabre DAC...
http://matrix-digi-usa.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63
Review
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650686/matrix-x-sabre-dac-review-and-impression-thread

Or this, Yulong's new DA8...
Info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/648674/yulongs-new-da8
Some impressions at the end of the thread.

This is the one Ive been eyeballing, but waiting to read reviews.

[jimbones]

Hey mike, right? we met at the An meeting couple of weeks ago. Thanks for the info I'll look into it.

[Face]

I'd avoid the Burson if you plan on designing speakers or taking measurements through it. 

It's a little above your budget, you can pick up a used Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 and eventually upgrade it to 32/384 and DSD capable: http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/905537 

[jsaliga]

jimbones, you should check out the Teac UD-501

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/05/initial-impressions-teac-ud-501-usb-dac.html

I have been using one for a little less than a week and so far I am very impressed.

It supports PCM up to 24bit/384KHz and DSD64 and 128.  It has both balanced and single-ended outputs and a built in headphone amp.  All for $850

--Jerome

[jimbones]

I'd avoid the Burson if you plan on designing speakers or taking measurements through it.  

It's a little above your budget, you can pick up a used Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 and eventually upgrade it to 32/384 and DSD capable: http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/905537  

Interesting. is a rather "polite" sounding DAC, but not very speedy and bass is a bit laid back. Why do you say not to use it when designing speakers? tonal imbalance? I am not emotionally attached to it so you can feel free to let it fly, ha ha 

[jimbones]

jimbones, you should check out the Teac UD-501

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/05/initial-impressions-teac-ud-501-usb-dac.html

I have been using one for a little less than a week and so far I am very impressed.

It supports PCM up to 24bit/384KHz and DSD64 and 128.  It has both balanced and single-ended outputs and a built in headphone amp.  All for $850

--Jerome

Yea, I was looking at this but was wondering if it is "audiophile performance". Magazines/websites get that snobby attitude and only give the best reviews for the uber expensive or whoever has the most advertising!

[machinehead]

Mike.. yes it is I. Ressonessence just upgraded the original Concero to do 24 384, but besides that they are releasing a Concero HD shortly that will play DSDs. I am waiting on the Mac updater for my Concero which will be out in a week. PC update is out already. Another to look at the HD I mean.

[jsaliga]

Yea, I was looking at this but was wondering if it is "audiophile performance". Magazines/websites get that snobby attitude and only give the best reviews for the uber expensive or whoever has the most advertising!

Well, if you want to fall for all that audiophile nonsense and FUD then go right ahead.  You can certainly spend a lot more on a DAC, upwards of several thousand dollars if you like.  And there probably won't be a shortage of people who will tell you that you need to spend more to get good sound.  

I really have no skin in this game so it doesn't matter to me what you end up with.  All I can tell you is that the Teac UD-501 is getting positive comments from people who have bought it.  I'm quite happy with mine.  There are some positive reviews, not that I think reviews from the audiophile press mean anything.  They sort of have to talk down a little to less expensive components in order to leave room for the uber pricey stuff.

All I was suggesting is that before you throw down $1,500 or more for a DAC take a good look at the Teac.  If after doing your homework you have lingering concerns you should buy something else.

Good luck,

--Jerome

[machinehead]

Id agree, there are a lot of great DACs in the up to $1500 range. Head Fi is a great resource for reading peoples impressions and project86, a member and reviewer usually gives thorough reviews and feels that there is great value in this range.
 

[jsaliga]

Well, I was thinking you can get a great DAC for considerably less than $1,500.  And Head-Fi has just as much audiophile FUD on it as any other place.  It's a good resource...don't get me wrong.  But you have to do your homework.

The Teac is only $850.  The only thing it lacks is a high price. 

--Jerome

[machinehead]

I hear ya.. project 86 is pretty reliable when it comes to reviews. He doesnt get carried away and is way more thorough with his reviews vs other reviewers. A reviewers job in my mind is to impart what kind of sound something has and whether it works as advertised, because most of the time I dont have that opportunity to try out a product. You do have to do your homework! But $1500 is not a lot of money when it comes to the audio hobby, so Id consider it a good value still. But to each his own. The Concero is only $600 and a great value with good sound. From what Ive read the upgrade gives better SQ because they changed the USB algorithm for passing the audio to the dac and they raised the upsampling rate. Should be interesting.

[jsaliga]

I'll make one more comment and then leave it be.

I happen to think $1,500 is a lot of money for a DAC, and I could afford to spend more than that if I thought it was worth it.  Others might see $1,500 as quite reasonable.  Part of it is conditioning and expectations, value judgments, and the size of your wallet.

Numerous factors affect the price of a audio components.  Performance is one of them, as are aesthetics, features, design, complexity, etc.  But I also believe that as the price goes up performance becomes less and less a factor in the cost.  At least that has been my experience.

Sometimes we spend more because it increases our confidence that we are buying a component that will deliver the goods.  I've done it myself.  Visually attractive aesthetics, robust and overbuilt designs, and extended feature sets can help to build confidence in the product.  But that said, those things may not sound any better than a lower priced component.

I personally believe that in the absence of an in-home audition, you are pretty much rolling the dice on any audio purchase.

--Jerome

[rollo]

Jerome you hit the proverbial nail on the head. In home audition is the only way to find out.
    Agreed that one can very good sound from components that are not expensive.
   Only a direct comparison between the so called "better" DAC and the bargin DAC will reveal shortcomings if they exist.
   From my experience with direct comparisons is that it was a matter of omission than fault. The extremes were better delineated with a  larger soundstage. Tonality about equal except some lessor models just sounded digital.
    Which makes it subjective to the system and most importantly the listener.
     It would be very interesting to see if say an Esoteric "K" series DAC or other expensive DAC fares against say the TEAC or other.
    The only way to find out is to compare directly. I would venture to go out on a limb and say the difference may be small however enough to make the sale.

charles
     

[DaveC]

The Teac is only $850.  The only thing it lacks is a high price. 

--Jerome

I wouldn't make that statement unless you've compared the Teac to several DACs that do cost a lot more. I don't know for sure, but I seriously doubt ANY DAC at that price range is offering performance that can't be beat by higher end gear. So, I would guess the Teac lacks a high price, but also lacks the last word in sound quality as well.

While getting good value for your money is important, players in the low to mid end of the range aren't the only ones offering it. It is possible to offer a $1500 DAC that is just as good of a value for the money as the Teac at $850 IF IT SOUNDS BETTER, and whether or not it's a good value is up to the purchaser.

So, I do think it's a good idea to try out lower priced alternatives like the Teac and others, but to say the only thing it lacks is a high pricetag is a bit presumptuous. I'd be willing to bet I can find a DAC that will be significantly better than the Teac if you gave me $1500 to spend.