AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Bipolar System Disorders => Topic started by: rollo on October 06, 2017, 08:29:38 AM

Title: Footers
Post by: rollo on October 06, 2017, 08:29:38 AM
  We have all tried some. report your findings of footers used. Liking these VEM Footers from Nasotec. Have used Pon-tunes, Alum Blocks, wood blocks, brass cones, Sound Fusion and Herbies. All mad a difference. Some VG, some OK some NFG.
I think what is overlooked the most is what is used under the footers. I try to use similar but dissimilar materials. Some footers drain, some isolate. Using the appropriate footer is not by chance. Isolate TT, Isolate transport. Drain amp, Preamp, Tuner, Tape deck and phonostage. Speakers ????
What is your favorite and why ???


charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: _Scotty_ on October 06, 2017, 09:30:23 AM
I am using Daruma bearing clones with tungsten carbide balls under my DAC, preamp,power amp,OPPO 103D,
and HAL MS-2 Music Server. For some reason IKEA cross grained laminated bamboo cutting boards underneath all components with footers on top, sound much better than maple cutting boards in the same application. The bamboo cutting boards made a big improvement across the "board" in my system. Very strange but I wouldn't run the system without them now.
 Now the bad news, I am assured by a very reliable source that Still Points footers are REALLY good, but I can't afford them. Oh well you can't have everything.
This image from the web is representative of my Daruma clones.
(https://www.computeraudiophile.com/uploads/monthly_2015_06/58cd98339a547_HipJoints.jpg.1a2c445dbdb8b1b8717a595bee9c1612.jpg)
Scotty
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: shadowlight on October 06, 2017, 11:36:27 AM
Has anyone used squash ball?  If yes, what type?
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: _Scotty_ on October 06, 2017, 01:10:05 PM
I tried squash balls and inner tubes back in the late 90s and at that time I had better results from ModSquad Tip Toes. However if I need isolation from environmental vibration for my turntable I will take squash balls, a good sized 1.5inch thick butcher block and a forstner bit and duplicate a gingko cloud. The ginkgo cloud will actually effectively isolate a turntable from structure borne vibration.
A vibraplane isolation table is a little more effective but for most of us it is unobtainium due its cost.
 Being that footers are unpredictable in their sonic effects on our systems you just have to try things until you find something that works for you.
Scotty
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on October 07, 2017, 07:26:42 AM
Yes tried squash balls, tennis balls, blue handballs in every configuration imaginable. To date no ball configuration was as affective as these Nasotec VEM footers.
Scotty the Nasotec IMHO are more affective than and way less expensive than Stillpoints. I agree about the Bamboo. Looking into the frames from Nasotec that go with the footers.


charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: BobM on December 12, 2017, 01:08:58 PM
Hey I heard that if you buy 4 Bitcoins and use them under your equipment feet the sound will forever keep changing as the value of the Bitcoins goes up and down.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: tmazz on December 12, 2017, 10:06:31 PM
Hey I heard that if you buy 4 Bitcoins and use them under your equipment feet the sound will forever keep changing as the value of the Bitcoins goes up and down.

If I had enough spare cash laying around to buy 4 bitcoins at the current price I would be looking to upgrade a lot more than my footers.  :roll:
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on December 13, 2017, 07:35:12 AM
Hey I heard that if you buy 4 Bitcoins and use them under your equipment feet the sound will forever keep changing as the value of the Bitcoins goes up and down.

Hoye !!

charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on January 22, 2019, 10:25:32 AM
  Back to a serious conversation to date not even Stillpoints beat these VEM footers. Recently added SGR equipment Racks. The VEM footers NOW are even better. Highly recommended for servers, power supplies ALL tube gear and last but certainly not lest power conditioners.  www.sgrhifiracks.com


charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: mdconnelly on January 22, 2019, 06:07:22 PM
Anyone try the IsoAcoustics OREA footers yet?    It seems there are 3 flavors - Bronze, Indigo & Bordeaux - to support different weights.  Price is right and I've been hearing some good things about them.    Check them out here: http://www.isoacoustics.com/orea-series/ (http://www.isoacoustics.com/orea-series/)

Title: Re: Footers
Post by: malloy on January 23, 2019, 06:10:57 PM
I am using Daruma bearing clones with tungsten carbide balls under my DAC, preamp,power amp,OPPO 103D,
and HAL MS-2 Music Server.
Scotty
Hi Scotty,

Where did you get these clones and how much? 

Thanks,

Paul
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: Nick B on January 23, 2019, 08:43:17 PM
Anyone try the IsoAcoustics OREA footers yet?    It seems there are 3 flavors - Bronze, Indigo & Bordeaux - to support different weights.  Price is right and I've been hearing some good things about them.    Check them out here: http://www.isoacoustics.com/orea-series/ (http://www.isoacoustics.com/orea-series/)

Not yet, but I’m thinking about it as well as being interested in the ISO stands.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: dflee on January 24, 2019, 06:41:43 AM
I just picked up a couple dowels for the speakers.
Gonna try Steve's suggestion. Not sure if it will work
with a speaker that has front and rear active woofer but for $11.00 why not.

Don
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: mdconnelly on January 24, 2019, 12:25:02 PM
Anyone try the IsoAcoustics OREA footers yet?    It seems there are 3 flavors - Bronze, Indigo & Bordeaux - to support different weights.  Price is right and I've been hearing some good things about them.    Check them out here: http://www.isoacoustics.com/orea-series/ (http://www.isoacoustics.com/orea-series/)

Not yet, but I’m thinking about it as well as being interested in the ISO stands.

I have read very good reviews of the IsoAcoustics Gaia footers for speakers.    The OREAs for components seem like a great deal but I'm still looking for more feedback before I pop.    I've tried less expensive isolation devices before from the Vibrapods to spikes to BDR cones.   They all do something, but IMHO, the difference has been relatively marginal and not always for the better.   I'll give the OREAs a try if/when I find a seller that will give me 30 days to return.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on January 24, 2019, 12:36:47 PM
  The VEM  footers are $450 retail for [3]. For the money the Pon Tune footers from Arion at $190 set of [3] has the most bang for buck IMO. I use both. I use the VEM under power supplies and server. Use Pon Tunes everywhere else.



charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: BobM on January 26, 2019, 07:41:47 AM
I found that not all footers of a type (squishy, roller, rubber-like, hard, wood, spikes, etc.) work equally effectively in all spots. It seems that some types of equipment react better to one type than another.

In my experience I found squishy things under tubes and roller things under solid state and power supplies. Spikes under speakers. As for my CD player I have an Ayre and use the Ayre myrtle blocks, which are no more than small blocks of wood. For the turntable nothing beats mass and more mass, but I do have it sitting on a butcher block and have found putting about a dozen squash balls between that butcher block and the shelf helped quite a bit to reduce any kind of taps on the rack or footfalls.

But then, that got me the sound I wanted from each. If you want to tighten things up maybe you want spiky things under everything. If you want to soften, use squishy things. It's all to taste.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: mdconnelly on January 26, 2019, 11:15:09 AM
Isolation vs coupling.   It's never as simple or straightforward as you'd think.   My experience with squishy things such as Vibrapods has not been very good.    On the other hand, heavy cones under speakers to couple them to flooring work better (for me) than vibration absorbing pads.   I suspect components such as my Devialet Expert Pros would do better with isolation footers which is why I'm looking at the IsoAcoustics OREAs.   I've ordered some to try from The Cable Company since they'll give me 30 days to try them.   I'll post results in a few weeks.

Still toying with the idea of similar footers (the IsoAcoustic GAIAs) under my speakers, but they are a bit pricier so I'll wait to see how the OREAs turn out first.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on January 28, 2019, 08:14:48 AM
  Footers react to what is underneath them as well. The shelf,plinth,etc counts. Usually the rule of thumb is similar but dissimilar materials. Hard to soft or visa versa.
  The rack is important. If the rack omits vibration from floor and the shelf absorbs then the goal is either drain the component OR isolate further.
  Components that have moving parts such as TT and transport like more decoulping. They must be dead on level as well. With a quality rack I have found that footers are mostly not required. Dampening the chassis in that case is more affective. 3M has some VG options.
  Draining resonance can be best by using Alum blocks. They transfer energy quite well. Using roller blocks or ball bearing type footers will dissipate the resonance by friction.
  For TT so far the BEST solution is a wood plinth set in a box of sand. The sandbox isolated by decoulping from rack. One size does not fit ALL for every application. Have fun trying.


charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: S Clark on January 28, 2019, 11:58:58 AM
Any suggestions for footer for a couple of turntables?  I'm redoing a plinth for my Technics SP-10 MKII, adding about 15lbs of lead shot to a baltic birch plinth.  It's been sitting on 4 Herbies Tenderfeet.  A Victor TT-81 is sitting on three wine corks arranged so they won't roll.  I've found that the sound improved after the first bottle, but it's hard to concentrate after the second.  I can't read my listening notes after the third, so I can't comment on the sound. 
By the way, Scotty's three ball bearings sitting in divots drilled in three pieces of flat stock looks pretty easy to DIY.  I like easy, almost as much as I like cheap.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on January 28, 2019, 12:58:16 PM
  If you like cheap make a sandbox and don't look back. Make it large enough to be 1/2" larger than the plinth in both width and length. Then you will need NO footers at all.
 Either mount box on a speaker stand decoulped from floor or on rack decoulped from rack easy as pie and extremely affective.



charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: S Clark on January 28, 2019, 01:18:00 PM
I've often thought of making a sandbox.  So you build a box, filled with sand, add a plywood floating cap to set the table on, leave 1/4" of space between the cap and the box.  Would dust be an issue?  With the arrangement of the ventilation of the Victor, I'd think sand/dust could be fatal. 
(https://zvukomaniya.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Victor-TT-81.jpg)
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on January 28, 2019, 01:27:23 PM
  Never a dust problem for me as I put felt strips in gap. That TT is odd looking. I would make a base with outriggers and spike to plinth. Does that ventilation system move air ?


charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: S Clark on January 28, 2019, 01:48:12 PM
  Never a dust problem for me as I put felt strips in gap. That TT is odd looking. I would make a base with outriggers and spike to plinth. Does that ventilation system move air ?


charles
Nope, the ventilation is passive.  I hadn't thought about felt  :duh. 
I've got some bird mouth router bits coming to make a box like below.  Think it can look pretty spiffy, and a sandbox might be just the thing.  Thanks, Charles.
(http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/519774-438x.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/f7/ae/0df7aef9888a40754925315ab4ba8ec1.jpg)
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: BobM on January 28, 2019, 02:38:39 PM
Maybe not felt, but Home Dopey sells different thicknesses of door damping/insulating foam, with adhesive on one side. Grey or white, your choice. Perfect
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on February 06, 2019, 08:09:16 AM
  Looking good there. You may also consider some viscoelastic dampening material between plinth and TT. keep us posted.

charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: Nick B on February 06, 2019, 01:33:24 PM
  Never a dust problem for me as I put felt strips in gap. That TT is odd looking. I would make a base with outriggers and spike to plinth. Does that ventilation system move air ?


charles
Nope, the ventilation is passive.  I hadn't thought about felt  :duh. 
I've got some bird mouth router bits coming to make a box like below.  Think it can look pretty spiffy, and a sandbox might be just the thing.  Thanks, Charles.
(http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/519774-438x.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/f7/ae/0df7aef9888a40754925315ab4ba8ec1.jpg)

Any more progress?
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 06, 2019, 02:40:19 PM
Hi Paul, sorry I haven't replied sooner. My speakers have ball bearing material handling assemblies under them. See link  https://www.amazon.com/Dorhea-Transfer-Universal-Rotation-Bearings/dp/B07BLVBC91/ref=lp_16411111_1_13?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1549491728&sr=1-13
 The cups were  custom made by a machinist to Rick  Reimers specs. Apparently a ball cutter? was used to  make a 1.5inch diameter indentation about 0.25inch deep in a piece of 2 inch diameter 7075 bar stock cut to 3/8 inch thickness.
http://prairieaudiomancave.com/reviews--reports/cheap-tweaks-do-it-yourself-ball-bearing-vibration-isolation-pucks
 According to the author of blog in the above link a Shepherd’s plastic 1 ¾” I.D. non-slip furniture cup can work with smaller balls and source equipment. For loudspeakers, I can't swear that the plastic cups will have a low enough coefficient of friction to work properly when a high mass loudspeaker is placed on them. A steel or aluminum cup maybe required for the speaker to be able to move freely.
 Scotty
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: S Clark on February 06, 2019, 03:48:24 PM

(http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/519774-438x.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/f7/ae/0df7aef9888a40754925315ab4ba8ec1.jpg)
[/quote]

Any more progress?
[/quote]
Well, the bits arrived, and I've cut some practice pieces, been to the lumbar yard to pick up some maple... and then hurt my back lifting with my trainer.  Been laid up for a week, but will get back to it in the next couple of days. 
I've still got to find the right width of each piece- trail and error with scrap mdf.   If there is a formula, to calculate the opening, I don't know it.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: Nick B on February 07, 2019, 11:24:14 AM

(http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/519774-438x.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/f7/ae/0df7aef9888a40754925315ab4ba8ec1.jpg)

Any more progress?
[/quote]
Well, the bits arrived, and I've cut some practice pieces, been to the lumbar yard to pick up some maple... and then hurt my back lifting with my trainer.  Been laid up for a week, but will get back to it in the next couple of days. 
I've still got to find the right width of each piece- trail and error with scrap mdf.   If there is a formula, to calculate the opening, I don't know it.
[/quote]

The exercise stuff can occasionally be hazardous, but we’re hoping for a speedy recovery andcurious how the project turns out.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: S Clark on February 13, 2019, 09:01:59 AM
I am using Daruma bearing clones with tungsten carbide balls under my DAC, preamp,power amp,OPPO 103D,
and HAL MS-2 Music Server
...
This image from the web is representative of my Daruma clones.
(https://www.computeraudiophile.com/uploads/monthly_2015_06/58cd98339a547_HipJoints.jpg.1a2c445dbdb8b1b8717a595bee9c1612.jpg)
Scotty
I'm got parts coming to build several sets of footers based on Scotty's clones.  Mine will be height adjustable.  When everything arrives and a prototype assembled, I'll get some photos up. 
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: _Scotty_ on February 14, 2019, 08:47:28 AM
FYI, I tried ceramic and steel ball bearings before spending the money on tungsten ball bearings. They really were the best under my electronic components.
 McMaster Carr has been my source for the bearings I tried.
I believe the ball transfer bearings under my loudspeakers are chrome steel but you should apply a little Triflow to them once in awhile to avoid rust on the mild steel containing the bearing assembly.
 I am looking forward to the seeing the images of your daruma clones.
Scotty
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: mdconnelly on February 17, 2019, 08:58:36 AM
I picked up the IsoAcoustics OREA Bronze footers a couple weeks ago (from The Cable Co) and have 3 of them placed under each of my Devialet Expert Pros.   I'm not going to say I heard an amazing night and day improvement, but I could discern a more open and deep soundstage pretty much right from the start.   There was also a more delicate extension in the top end.   They seem extremely well built and attractive to look at.  (I also love trying tweaks that DO NOT require "breakin" ;-)  Overall, pretty nice bang for the buck footers.   Now I'm toying with the idea of using IsoAcoustics GAIAs under my speakers to replace spikes in Herbie's fat gliders (on hardwood floors).

I read a lot of good reviews of the IsoAcoustics products and my experience with the OREA Bronze confirms it.   Worth checking out ... http://www.isoacoustics.com/orea-series/ (http://www.isoacoustics.com/orea-series/)
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: Putz on February 18, 2019, 09:59:04 PM
Gaia 2s for my speakers. Gaia 3s under Amp. Oreas under phono and preamp. Really tightens up the sound. Beat Stillpoints when we did a shootout on 3 different systems, mine being the lowest ended.

As stated, you can try them for 30 days. Took me less than 30 minutes to decide to keep them.

Only needed 6 Gaias for my Salk speakers. Sold the 2 extras right away to another guy who was in the same boat.

I also have their Aperta 300 under my Salk center channel with fantastic results.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on February 19, 2019, 08:23:57 AM
   It appears to me that "decoulping" ones speakers and components is the key here. Footers are not equal as you have heard in demo of such.
   I really like Pon-Tunes or VEM footers. Home brew works if done right. However the engineered products seem to yield better results. Ya get what ya pay for. Almost forgot Herbies decoulpers for speakers and racks.


charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: malloy on February 19, 2019, 09:12:13 PM
Hi Paul, sorry I haven't replied sooner. My speakers have ball bearing material handling assemblies under them. See link  https://www.amazon.com/Dorhea-Transfer-Universal-Rotation-Bearings/dp/B07BLVBC91/ref=lp_16411111_1_13?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1549491728&sr=1-13
 The cups were  custom made by a machinist to Rick  Reimers specs. Apparently a ball cutter? was used to  make a 1.5inch diameter indentation about 0.25inch deep in a piece of 2 inch diameter 7075 bar stock cut to 3/8 inch thickness.
http://prairieaudiomancave.com/reviews--reports/cheap-tweaks-do-it-yourself-ball-bearing-vibration-isolation-pucks
 According to the author of blog in the above link a Shepherd’s plastic 1 ¾” I.D. non-slip furniture cup can work with smaller balls and source equipment. For loudspeakers, I can't swear that the plastic cups will have a low enough coefficient of friction to work properly when a high mass loudspeaker is placed on them. A steel or aluminum cup maybe required for the speaker to be able to move freely.
 Scotty

Thanks for the reply, Scotty! Will check these out.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: mdconnelly on September 11, 2019, 12:00:50 PM
I was so pleased with the Isoacoustics OREAs, that I wanted to try the GAIA II footers for my speakers.    Isoacoustics sells them for $299 for a set of 4 (twice that for both speakers in my case).   Fortunately, I noticed them on Amazon at $259 per set so I popped.  (it seems they rarely sell them for less than MSRP).   Besides, Amazon offers 30 days to return at no cost.

Got them and, to be honest, I'm a bit astonished.   I had been using spikes into Herbie's fat gliders, so I didn't expect a big difference.   I was wrong.   It was quite a noticeable difference - far more than I expected.   In my room, I always felt bass was a bit too dominate.   I even stuffed the rear ports of my Von Schweikert VR-35 speakers with dacron to tame it a bit (as suggested by Albert VS).   With the GAIA IIs, the bass dominance changed.   Bass tightened and I swear went even deeper.  I took out the dacron and am loving what I'm hearing.

In addition to the change in the bass, I find that the sound stage is more open, with voices and instruments more defined in sound and space.   And the top end just seems more relaxed and natural.   I've still got a few weeks before I have to decide whether to return them or not, but I really can't see any chance of that happening.   Not cheap by any means, but a worthy investment from my perspective.  YMMV but definitely worth a try.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on September 12, 2019, 05:31:30 AM
  Nice review Mike. Thanks.

charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: Barry (NJ) on September 12, 2019, 11:44:10 AM
Has anyone tried the Hudson Hi-Fi (https://www.hudsonhifi.com/collections/sound-isolation) footers?
Some of their other products look interesting too.
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: steve on September 13, 2019, 11:58:32 AM
 
I think what is overlooked the most is what is used under the footers. I try to use similar but dissimilar materials. Some footers drain, some isolate. Using the appropriate footer is not by chance. Isolate TT, Isolate transport. Drain amp, Preamp, Tuner, Tape deck and phonostage. Speakers ????
What is your favorite and why ???


charles

Nice topic Charles. I am currently using a rack and dislike it. I am decoupling my phono stage,
11A Line Preamplifier, and CD player, using 12.5 inch bicycle inner tubes half blown up, purchased from
Walmart . Tried it on my TT, but just a little unstable to my taste. I just placed one under each monoblock
and hopefully no blow out.   :lol:  Will see how it goes.

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: Nick B on September 13, 2019, 02:14:38 PM
Has anyone tried the Hudson Hi-Fi (https://www.hudsonhifi.com/collections/sound-isolation) footers?
Some of their other products look interesting too.

 No, haven’t heard of this company. Interesting products and I bookmarked the website .
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on September 14, 2019, 10:58:55 AM
  Thanks Steve tried almost everything. It all sounds different. Decoupling appears to be most affective method. Combined with drawing out  resonance and then isolating inner tubes will work. Just a PIA to keep inflated and level. I still have several Arcicci Air Head that do exactly that. But the darn valves leak.

charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: steve on September 23, 2019, 01:45:01 PM
  Thanks Steve tried almost everything. It all sounds different. Decoupling appears to be most affective method. Combined with drawing out  resonance and then isolating inner tubes will work. Just a PIA to keep inflated and level. I still have several Arcicci Air Head that do exactly that. But the darn valves leak.

charles

So far mine, phono, 11A are working very well, and not deflating. But then I used a nearly empty can of tire inflater/sealer to partially inflate the inner tubes. That, along with the supplied screw caps have them up since I purchased them, a year or more ago.

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on October 09, 2019, 11:57:45 AM
Steve great idea using Tire inflater/sealer for inner tube. The wheelbarrow tube is perfect size. Always had issues with tube deflating. Valve issues as well. However when level and NOT loosing air very good results.

charles
Title: Re: Footers
Post by: rollo on October 09, 2019, 11:59:06 AM
Steve great idea using Tire inflater/sealer for inner tube. The wheelbarrow tube is perfect size. Always had issues with tube deflating. Valve issues as well. However when level and NOT loosing air very good results.

charles

   Better yet "Blue" rubber balls.

charles