Author Topic: Out of Sight out of Mind  (Read 9835 times)

Offline rollo

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Out of Sight out of Mind
« on: August 24, 2009, 07:23:47 AM »
  Whilst we bask in the light of the NEW the OLD is forgotten. So were has the class "A" gear of the rags gone ? Gee last year it was class "A" now its not even listed . HMMMM something fishy going on here. A classic is a classic now matter what.
  So before one plucks down some serious cash for the new, consider the old. Not many innovative circuit designs lately or breakthrough technology [ except CD playback]. So why do we lust for the new ? Cause its new. BULLSHIT.
  IMO an older system like a pair of Mirage M1si or Snells powered by a Jadis Defy 7 or a pair of Proac Response 2s powered by a Music reference amp and Audible Illusion 3A Pre , Maggies and a Bryston 4B and VAC Pre would fair quite well or better many of today's combos for A LOT LESS MULLA. There are many other synergistic combos that have been forgotton. Oh and do not forget the cables. I'll put up my Tara Decade cable against anything out there today or the older MIT stuff.
  As far as front end today's gear outclasses the old. Exceptions are IMO The Theta 5A, Enlightened Audio and Sonic Frontiers. With the computer its all changing. Very very good but still not there compared to the better players IMO but for the money the difference could be deciding factor.
  Ramble on men as to your thoughts.



charles
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poloman

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2009, 08:04:58 PM »
Good old stuff is still good,  look at places like Audiogon,  doing quite well.  why not get A rated gear for pennies on the dollar, and in great shape.  thanks to all you flavor of the month guys.  Ill take your gear.  Its the best way to build a first class system,  without breaking the bank.  And it still holds its value when your ready to sell again.  And get the newer stuff.  Keep it coming.

JakeJ

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 06:39:53 AM »
Greeting rollo and poloman,

You'll get no arguements from me!  Used audio market been berry, berry good to me.

My current system here and some of the deals I got to make it come together:

Genesis 501 w/ cabinet and XO upgrades to the 5.2 model level; $18K new, $6.2K delivered.  :mrgreen:

VAC PA-160 Mk I; $5690 new $2200 shipped.  :drool:

McCormack ALD-1 w/ A+ rev mods. Bought used for $600, ~$2K in mods, approaches performance level of the new VRE-1.  :clap:

SME M2-9 tonearm never mounted; $1.6K new, $625 delivered.  :shock:

80% of cabling purchased used also.

The SOTA Sapphire, Adcom GCD-750, and Audio Magic Stealth XXX PLC are the only items I have purchased new over the past ten years.  I'll add that the equipment listed in the main rig is but the tip of the iceberg.  My home theater is comprised of used gear, I have enough to put together three or four more systems, and then there's the vintage stuff.

I would not have nearly as nice a system if it weren't for the used market.

Havin' fun,
JakeJ

Offline rollo

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2009, 08:06:28 AM »
Hey Jake some slick buys there. Hey IMO if its good its good. BTW really what new circuits or ground breaking designs have we seen lately [ except digital] over the years. Caps and resistors have improved but NOT the circuits. Classic gear IS well classic gear. Gee those Snell A1s must sound like shit now they are so old. Or a Mac 275 just terrible hey. I'll put up my old Audio research DR250 Mk2 servo up against ANy of todays offerings in push pull triode. New $9000 used $3300. Even the AR classic 60 at $1200 cannot be beat IMO. Well just a few more examples. Don't forget the older CJs as well. The PV 10a still kicks some serious arse [ $800 used]. New is new but not always better.


charles
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Offline Carlman

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2009, 09:14:28 AM »
I don't know of anyone in hifi that 'only buys new'.. It's part of the hobby to buy and sell.. and the only way most people can audition gear.  So I don't see how 'old' gear is ever forgotten...
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline rollo

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2009, 09:34:03 AM »
I don't know of anyone in hifi that 'only buys new'.. It's part of the hobby to buy and sell.. and the only way most people can audition gear.  So I don't see how 'old' gear is ever forgotten...

 If you check out Sterophile or the other rags, it appears every year the reccomended components change because " not auditioned in a long time" BS. IMO they should compare the older recco stufff with the new BEFORE changing the list.
  Its forgotten because the new is NEW must be better.


charles
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Offline Carlman

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2009, 09:40:41 AM »
OHH... you're talking about Stereophile's assumption... got it..
Yeah, they have to compare to something that still sells new or there's no reason to advertise...  Because if it's not super obvious easy money, there is no reason for the CEO to make that decision... and since stockholders with only profit as a goal are running the company, how can there really be fair comparisons?

I don't know if Stereophile is a (or owned by a) public company but my guess is that they are.  Once you go public, it's over for the brand in my opinion.. Caring about an idea/ideal gets lost in the transition... or at least that's what I've seen.

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline rollo

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2009, 11:01:06 AM »
OHH... you're talking about Stereophile's assumption... got it..
Yeah, they have to compare to something that still sells new or there's no reason to advertise...  Because if it's not super obvious easy money, there is no reason for the CEO to make that decision... and since stockholders with only profit as a goal are running the company, how can there really be fair comparisons?

I don't know if Stereophile is a (or owned by a) public company but my guess is that they are.  Once you go public, it's over for the brand in my opinion.. Caring about an idea/ideal gets lost in the transition... or at least that's what I've seen.

-C


 Well the audio press in general one might say. Got that right.  :roll:  Well for me its casual reading. All reviews IMO are flawed. First of all their room is different. Second one really does not know hoe the reviwed component will work in their system. Third its subjective at best and the beat goes on. If the reviewer describes the character of the piece then and then only can we derive at any conclusion. Next Global warming.


charles
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Offline BobM

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2009, 06:57:46 AM »
What's actually really scary about the magazines is that the reviewers themselves do not have audiophile like rooms. Most of them are severely compromized in one way or another (this from a friend who is in the business and has visited many of them). They are not as much into the room acoustics thing as many of us are. And of course they each have their little biases and preferences. It is a subjective hobby, ya know, so you have to know theyr particular flavor to accuratley understand what's being said between the lines.

Yeah, they get good stuff to listen to, and there's always more and more to hear each year, and their livelihood depends on keeping up with what's new, and they have to continually come up with something to keep readers interested, etc. The whole point of these magazines is to assist the industry to move forward and maintain sales. So there's really no surprise that they tout new stuff over old, even if it's not surprisingly different or better.

The industry does go through phases though, from tubes to SS, to peaky and overly transparent highs, to deep bass, back to tubes, to analogue, to new digital, etc. Keep it moving and keep it interesting is what they are all about.

But those of us with real wallets that we have to replenish occasionally need to sort through this marketing and decide what we want, then use the reviews as one tool to get there. It takes discipline, especially since the hobby is working against you're simply saying "I'm satisfied, so I think I'll just stop here and enjoy".
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and you'll have to blow your nose.

Offline rollo

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2009, 12:26:07 PM »
Except for Pearson I agree. No names but if the guys here saw the room of ,you know who they would run very far away. Foam under over on components. Multiple power conditioners plugged into each other.  and powercords plugged into each other. Now he has 2 sets of speakers playing at one time Quads and Maggies. Heresy I tell ya heresy. :duh



charles
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2009, 02:03:13 PM »
Do you mean Pearson or someone else? I thought Pearson had his shit together with a slave to dress wires and polish tubes and everything.

I don't believe a word of TAS except Valin and Olsher both of whom I enjoy very much. I like Fremer's speaker and electronics reviews. I have less in common with Dudley and Atkinson but they are sometimes interesting. I don't put much value in any of the rest. 

Over the years you learn how to read between the lines, which when decoded does warn the reader about a piece of shit, without offending the manufacturer nurse teet. It's a sick game designed to protect the magazine, the mfg and enlightened readers who know the code, while sacrificing the helpless noobs who "want to believe." I admire reviewers that compare A to B in plain language and suffer the consequences. Only the top reviewers with clout can do that, or a magazine with no personalities attached to the reviews, like What-HiFi?

bacobits

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2009, 04:00:21 PM »
I read Bound for Sound. No advertising! Probably the last and only one left.

Stereophile I subscribe because it's cheap and entertaining and that is all it is.
I do not save them anymore.

From their recent Recommended Components List :
"There are no C and D rated components at this time". WTF?
You mean to tell me they cold not pick average components to fill those gaps?

What kind of BS is that?
No need to buy new, there is abundant great used equipment out there.

Oh one more thing. I'm actually sick of some of these people's opinions on these boards.
No names mentioned but not here.

I'm getting tired of all the F*&^# BS that is spent in print over the years.

Den
« Last Edit: October 02, 2009, 04:02:29 PM by bacobits »

Offline rollo

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2009, 04:06:41 PM »
Hey den that was a good one. Here you will find posters that sincerely want to help from their life experiences in this Nervosa. We all have our views but do not piss on each other.
    May the Nervosa be with you. In a nice way. :beer:


charles
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bacobits

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2009, 04:12:50 PM »
Yup, some people are just rabid about this stuff in annoying ways.
I read some of this stuff elsewhere and just say WTF?
Then I leave till the next day to see what other shit was added. :roll:
 
Ya all know who and where I'm talkin'.


Den

Offline richidoo

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Re: Out of Sight out of Mind
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2009, 04:32:41 PM »
Oh one more thing. I'm actually sick of some of these people's opinions on these boards.
No names mentioned but not here.

word   8)