Do you ever just have to bite your tongue?

[Carlman]

Ever bite your tongue about gear that you just can't understand how someone would like it?
In this hobby it's all so subjective... and if you like it, that's really all that matters.  But there is some stuff I really can't understand how anyone could like... Telling folks how their gear sucks doesn't sound like a good idea so, I thought I'd start with my own.

Musical Fidelity X-150... It's wonderful, if you like washed-over, distant sound with a heavy veil.  I bought it based on reviews expressing it had power and current... In the end it sounded like a midfi receiver... much like a Panasonic XR-45... which brings me to.. the Panny XR-45... or 25.. the digital darlings of a year or 2 ago.  I didn't get it.  Both the Panasonic and the X-150 sounded in the same league, with a slight edge going to the X150 for smoothness. 

A stock Squeezebox while doing an enormously cool thing, still only sounds ho-hum to me unless paired with a real DAC.  The stock sound is veiled and seems to be limited in upper FR at some point.  It almost sounds like some eq'ing is happening.. a slight bass boost and high freq roll-off... but maybe it's me.

I'll give an honorable mention to Klipsch KG-series speakers here... I had them a long time ago.. and they were the loudest speakers I've ever owned.  However, I don't get horn tweeters.  Even the ones with lightning inside that I saw at RMAF that cost more than a house... bright and nasal...

Anyway... feel free to chime in with your stand-out experiences in hi-fi ho-hum-ness...

[Black Sand Cable]

Shit.....where do I start? I can see this thread getting fun but God hates a coward so here goes.

I agree with Carl, the SB3 is average at best without a standalone DAC. It can be improved upon but the result will still pale in comparison to what a DAC brings to the table.

Along the same lines as what Carl said about the MF X-150, I would put the Marsh A-400S in that class also. Very well reviewed but in my system it did nothing for me. lam still under the belief that the power ratings are inaccurate as I had the amp clip on several occasions. I don't know what the deal was with this amp but like I said in my system it was a brutal performer.

McIntosh DVD players or at least the MVP-861. If I had wanted to buy a Denon, I would have bought a Denon! The MVP-861 from what I can tell is nothing more than a re badged Denon. Performance did not justify the price.

I have more but I'm going to sit back and see where this thread goes first before posting anything else!

[mgalusha]

nuforce - nothing I can say is good, at least those I've heard so far and to my ears.

And I agree on a stock Squeezebox, not good.

[Black Sand Cable]

I neglected to give an honorable mention to something that I was expecting nothing out of but was very surprised on the end performance. Anyway, it would be the Marantz MM-9000 amp. Can be had for next to nothing and will surprise most with what it brings to the table.

http://www.marantz.com/p_product.cfm?id=324&continent=AM&single=1

[Bigfish8]

I feel I have learned a lot about this hobby in the past year and I have many people at AN to thank for sharing their knowledge.  This topic is one that could be quite interesting and one I look forward to seeing how it will ultimately develop.

While this is slightly off topic I think the one area where you have to be careful giving or accepting advice is about speakers.  Also, based on how often I have noticed some people change speakers I believe it is difficult to find utopia!  I know I am not there with my current speakers but I will take my time with audtions prior to purchasing my next pair.  At the very least I will be happy with the way they sound in their setting prior to bringing them home.

As far as my experience I would say forget a Squeezebox stock power supply.  If you are not going to upgrade the power supply don't consider the Squeezebox as your music server.  Also, if you are going with a Bolder Analog Modded Squeezebox, I definitely recommend the addition of a Buffer.  I am using a Burson Unit but I understand Wayne is making a priority Bolder Buffer.

My honorable mention has to go to the Black Sand Silver Power Cords.  They made a substantial and noticable improvement to the sound from my system.

Ken

[Carlman]

Thanks for bringing up Nuforce... I didn't understand them.. grainy mids and etched highs with incredible bass... Maybe they're good as a sub amp but not as a full system amp.

That reminds me of another amp, the CIA D200.  I never owned it but auditioned it in my system for a while... another unmusical, edgy amp that made my skin crawl.  In fact, everyone in the room experienced the same thing... to varying degrees. 

Some of the problems I hear (or are sensitive to) aren't as much of a problem for others.  So, some of this stuff that bothers me in the highs isn't going to bother someone else... just depends on how you hear.

BTW, I appreciate the learning journey that hifi takes us on... and Ken, you've only just started... It's a long road that can also change in a moment... Glad you're on the ride with us, though!

-C

[bpape]

Kharma speakers.  Nice and dynamic, very clean - but very sterile and uninvolving IMO.  Wouldn't buy them for 1/10th the price, much less what they ask for them

Bryan

[miklorsmith]

There are so many variables in delivering final system sound that when Great Sound is produced, it is inevitably a contribution of all the parts.  Many times a single piece will be singled out for accolades.  Conversely, when overall sound falls flat it could actually be one piece or negative synergy of a speaker/room, amp/speaker, or amp/preamp pairing.  It could be a speaker all by itself for a given listener or a source in the context of the rest of the system.

I literally cannot believe the changes in my overall sound tweaking the bass curves from 20 - 120 hz.  I can dial in a warm and enveloping signature or one that is comparatively cool and clinical just within that range.  This points to what I think is the single most important choice a listener can make - speakers.  Some won't fit rooms.  Some just won't have the desired characteristics in any room.  A precious few fit the room AND all the user's parameters.

That's my long-winded disclaimer, and with that . . .

I had the PS Audio HCA-2, highly regarded.  It was a cold fish, even with a tubed pre.  It was matched to Gallo Ref. 3's which I really don't get.  They do great special effects up high (I wish the tweeter was in a different speaker) but don't flesh the midrange nearly to my needs.  Bass in my room was light but it was a really big room.  I didn't care for the NuForce sound but that was an early 8 model and the new ones are probably better.

I've heard the Wilson Alexandrias twice, including the new V2 model recently with some very nice stuff.  Even on vinyl these don't do it for me.  They're cold, clinical, and comprised of many parts instead of a whole.  I heard the W/P 8s too.  I liked them better than the Alexandrias but still thought them unnaturally jumpy with indistinct bass.  Interestingly, I thought they sounded superb on an unknown piece of classical music, it was when the going got familiar that I changed my mind.

In the same demo, I heard a Linn system that was pentamped with all Linn stuff.  Yep, 5 drivers per side with 5 stereo amps.  The salesman said they sound way better this way.  Whatever the theoretical advantage, it didn't play out.  These three rooms were professionally set up with very good gear that should have been configured to show best sides of each piece, though tubes were notably absent from all.

I then heard the $35k Mac line arrays driven by huge Mac (1201's?) monos.  Boring, man, what a sleeper.  I can't imagine they're selling many of them, though they are really big and impressive.  My buddy and I expected to get blown out of the room on dynamics so that one was a real surprise.

See, once you invoke the universal disclaimer you can fire all canons with impunity.   

[Carlman]

I've heard similar complaints about the PS Audio HCA.  I have in fact, never heard anything from PS Audio that I thought was 'good'.  It always looked cool.. kind of like NAD... I would even put NAD a step up from PSA... and I'm no fan of NAD.  I just like saying NAD.  haha.

Nice disclaimer!  Nothing will get rid of the edgy unrealistic highs of a Nuforce or CIA D200 for me though... The revision thing with Nuforce is ridiculous... reminds me of a certain cable manufacturer...

-C

[Black Sand Cable]

NAD..NAD...NAD....NAD.....NAD's! 

I see what you mean! I think I like saying it now to!

I must admit that I have owned a few NAD pieces and for the most part they worked but didn't leave me longing for more. I do like how they keep it simple especially with their receivers. No goofy surround settings or anything like that just a simple easy to use box. The problem I had was more often than not, my NAD box would die on me and end up needing to be taken in for repair. I have heard that they are better now but for a time I don't think the word reliability and NAD went together. I had the T-773 for a time that was in the shop 3 times in less than a year as to give but one example. I also cant stand NAD for not allowing owners to do their own firmware upgrades. This policy that NAD and others have has always been a sore spot with me.

I have yet to play with anything from the Master Series but some of it does look pretty good.

[mfsoa]

Well, I think this is gonna be my first post on this site. Sorta looks like a parallel universe to AudioCircle.

While I don't want to mention anything specific right now (Carlman, we sure do agree on something ), some of the gear that are the darlings of some circles does come under criticism off-line. I got several private messages regarding some "well-loved" Class-D amps, that were all pretty negative. I think bad reviews are sometimes like cockroaches - You only hear a few but there are way more out there you can't see.  And at the few New York Audio Raves I've gone to there were some pretty direct criticisms of some of the brands that you'd think walked on water due to the supportive fan base on some forums.

Back to the golden rule of audio I guess:  Listen for yourself. Decide for yourself.

OK, something specific - The Gallos I don't get either. They sound like little plastic speaker balls stuck onto a vertical post, imagine that!

-Mike

[richidoo]

So glad to see you here Mike!! Welcome to Audio Nervosa.

We do the same thing at our gatherings here in NC. When you feel comfortable with your homies, and have a few beers in you, the opinions really start to pour out!  The darling brands are the ripest for "discussion," even when they are OK value for the money. But when the company has cocky marketing or makes arrogant statements online they set themselves up as a target.
Rich

[Bigfish8]

Back to the golden rule of audio I guess:  Listen for yourself. Decide for yourself.

-Mike

Hi Mike:

That is a very interesting Golden Rule!


One thing that always causes me to bite my tongue are the arguments that arise in the circles over ICs, SCs and PCs.  A percentage of people cannot hear or are convinced there is no difference in sound produced in a system with cable changes.  They want to argue that those of us who do hear differences cannot prove we hear differences with measurements.  This hobby, and it is a hobby as you are spending discretionary money, is all about personal choices and we all entitled to our own opinions.

Ken

[pmkap]

nuforce - nothing I can say is good, at least those I've heard so far and to my ears.
.......

But have you heard them with their $1k a pop Black Ice conditioners?
Its quite interesting how Jason has changed his tune regarding powerconitioners, now that he is marketing them..... I'm still waiting for that email acknowledging that I was right and he was wrong.
The last communincation I got from him was titled 'Why you so rude?'

Actually, the mids and treble becomes reasonably acceptable with an Adept or diy efforts (and I assume, their own conditioners).

I'm still wondering how they managed to get all those rave reviews.

-Paul

[Carlman]

We had a gathering where my killer Straley speaker cables (to me anyway) got their butts handed to them.  I was mighty suprised since they sounded so good at home... and will still be used at home...

I think this might be one of the reasons people don't go overboard with criticisms on the web... One thing can sound so good in one place/system and not so good somewhere else.  Plus, I don't want to bash a small company's product without some real seat time.  Of course, same can be said about positive experiences... I wish people didn't rave about gear until they spent more time with it... Then there wouldn't  be as many 'darlings'.

-C