Author Topic: Fuses for dac  (Read 13466 times)

Offline tmazz

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2014, 09:32:31 AM »

AN Rule #1: "Don't bash people here." 

+1

Roger may have some unconventional views about things, but an insult like that was not only uncalled for but just simply untrue. Not only is he very capable of designing a working amplifier, but he has designed some of the finest sounding amps I have ever heard in my 30+ years in this hobby. Try and find a used RM-9 amp on A'gon. Those who own them rarely give them up and when they do get listed, not ony tdo they get grabbed up in a heartbeat but they usually sell  for more than original list price form the 80's.

Sorry I have to call them as I see them and Dave's comment about Roger was just way out of line and not in keeping with the play nice in the sandbox atmosphere that makes AN the nice place that it is.
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Offline rpf

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2014, 09:41:56 AM »
rpf, when I owned Manley 100W tube amps they came with Bussman ceramic envelope fuses for the B+ (and main) rather than glass. Is this the same thing that RM is talking about? Is "sand filled ceramic" different than Bussman standard ceramic? I'm sure Synergistic Research would say yes. I do respect them, their weird products are consistently good and they are smart enough to know how to rock the boat for lots of free publicity.


AN Rule #1: "Don't bash people here."  

I don't know. The Hi Fi Tuning fuses are also ceramic, I believe, so I don't think that has anything to do with whether they're sand filled or not.

I have to say, as much of an improvement as the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses made over stock ones, the SR Red fuses are that much of an improvement over the Hi-Fi fuses. The strange thing, to me, is that the tonality is more accurate (fuller), even though the ends are apparently rhodium. A metal that has always sounded thin and harsh to me.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 09:48:59 AM by rpf »
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Offline rpf

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2014, 09:43:55 AM »
I have used HiFi fuses to good effect in my tube amp for years.

You can use them in tube amps. But for the mains and B+ rail, not as fuses for the tubes themselves.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 09:49:41 AM by rpf »
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Offline Werd

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2014, 02:03:25 PM »

AN Rule #1: "Don't bash people here."  

+1

Roger may have some unconventional views about things, but an insult like that was not only uncalled for but just simply untrue. Not only is he very capable of designing a working amplifier, but he has designed some of the finest sounding amps I have ever heard in my 30+ years in this hobby. Try and find a used RM-9 amp on A'gon. Those who own them rarely give them up and when they do get listed, not ony tdo they get grabbed up in a heartbeat but they usually sell  for more than original list price form the 80's.

Sorry I have to call them as I see them and Dave's comment about Roger was just way out of line and not in keeping with the play nice in the sandbox atmosphere that makes AN the nice place that it is.

I guess you didnt see the thing that got binned about fuses on his thread. It wasn't cool at all and it made him look shady. He has no room to comment about fuses or cables.
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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2014, 02:23:07 PM »
Quote
The strange thing, to me, is that the tonality is more accurate (fuller), even though the ends are apparently rhodium. A metal that has always sounded thin and harsh to me.

Rhodium does not sound thin or harsh... it is simply more accurate.

Offline rpf

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2014, 06:17:34 PM »
Quote
The strange thing, to me, is that the tonality is more accurate (fuller), even though the ends are apparently rhodium. A metal that has always sounded thin and harsh to me.

Rhodium does not sound thin or harsh... it is simply more accurate.

Thin and harsh might not have been the most accurate terms. I was quickly trying to translate the problem, especially with the highs, that I've always heard from rhodium plated RCAs, spades and plugs (on some high end cables where I've also heard copper and/or gold plated connectors). It has always sounded forward, with a "glaze" - like a heavily poly coated gym floor or wood bar - to it. Never tonally accurate compared to pure copper, or even gold, IMO.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 06:34:02 PM by rpf »
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Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2014, 07:13:04 AM »
Quote
The strange thing, to me, is that the tonality is more accurate (fuller), even though the ends are apparently rhodium. A metal that has always sounded thin and harsh to me.

Rhodium does not sound thin or harsh... it is simply more accurate.

Thin and harsh might not have been the most accurate terms. I was quickly trying to translate the problem, especially with the highs, that I've always heard from rhodium plated RCAs, spades and plugs (on some high end cables where I've also heard copper and/or gold plated connectors). It has always sounded forward, with a "glaze" - like a heavily poly coated gym floor or wood bar - to it. Never tonally accurate compared to pure copper, or even gold, IMO.

rpf is spot on! Rhodium is a HORRENDOUS electrical conductor and typically sounds that way, characterized as "harsh & analytical". Most audiophiles with a high resolving system can easily discern these rhodium anomalies...

Rhodium's conductivity is ~ half that of Gold, and keep in mind that Gold is a lesser conductor than pure copper by 40%!!!

It's super expensive since it's in the platinum family of metals and is very useful in super high temperature & harsh industrial environments and best used there, but not in audio. Sounds like some audio marketing gurus are capitalizing on rhodium's "bling" & "jewelry" effect!

With that said, in my Rhodium bashing, there are two companies that get Rhodium plating done right IMHO, one is Cardas (but not Furutech)... My hypothesis is that Cardas' use of pure copper with silver plating and then rhodium plating synergizes exceptionally well for audio applications.

If you want to talk about accurate conducting materials, one should speak about silver (without platings), the "best" practical electrical conductor there is... however, pure copper is very close in conductivity & a lot more cost efficient in most audio applications. How many recording studios use silver in their cabling??? Aren't we trying to reproduce the same event?

My rant & $0.02,
Pete
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DaveC

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2014, 07:33:49 AM »
I obviously completely disagree with everything you've said in your post, Pete.

Before, you said "only the Furutecch FI-50" gets rhodium right... now it's not Furutech at all, who are known to have the best quality platings in the industry. 

My D4 IC cables and PL power cables have some rhodium or platinum plating and I've NEVER heard anyone say what you describe in your post about the "sound of rhodium" about my cables.

But if your experience is primarily with off-brand stuff I could see where the misconceptions are coming from. IME, you can trust WBT and Furutech to make a quality part, whether it's rhodium OR gold plated.

IMO, you're really stretching there, Pete...  :lol:


Offline rollo

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2014, 07:41:56 AM »
  Dave no one hates you here. There have been several cable makers here before you that started here. Some made it big others not. As one size never fits all there is room for everybody.
   We love all of you. You made a good point with manufactures who dismiss what we hear with tweaks, cables, fuses etc. I cannot respect them either. We just do not name names.
    
     To date I have yet to hear cables from different makers that sound the same. Close maybe but not the same. Most shy away from a manf. when they insist their parts are "the best" or slip in a non complimenting comment about wire, connectors and such on the forums that others use. That causes issues and is just not cool. That was a statement NOT an accusation.
      Back to fuses. For me they all sound different. Audio magic warm, SR red dynamic, Hi Fi tuning Hi Fi, Sand filled stock varies.
     If I had to pick one it would be SR Red.
charles
      
      
    


    
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Offline rollo

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2014, 08:00:22 AM »
    It is not one component of the cable design that makes or breaks it. The entire design and assembly of such is the key.
    Plating in general has a character all to its own. IME gold is warm, copper neutral, silver lean, rhodium bright. Now combining the characteristics of wire, dielectric and connectors makes a good marriage.
     We cannot argue that say Rhodium, silver, gold plating alone is good or bad. Just different. If one has a warm system Rhodium would be my recco. If one had a bright system gold would be my recco.
    It is all a balancing act for the designer to come up with a suitable product to represent there line. Just to many variables for a one size fits all cable.
    Since cable manf's have different theories on design is good for us. We get to try them all. Hooray.
    Just keep those cables coming from TWL and Dave. There is room for all.
     Fuses ? let;s get back to fuses.


charles


charles
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Offline tmazz

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2014, 08:20:15 AM »
Fuses and cables are inthe same boat. At the bottom line it is not about what they sound like in and of themselves, but rather how well any one of them play with the rest of your components. Because in the end you are building and audio SYSTEM and the only thing that really matters the what the sum of the parts is. There cannot be a fuse or a cable that is the "best" in and of itself, just a fuse or cable that is the best for a particular application. That is why there is room fopr a whole range of different designs. In my case I have all one brand of interconnects in my system with the exception of the phono to preamp link which sounds best with a diferent type of cable. Go figure.
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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2014, 09:24:48 AM »
    It is not one component of the cable design that makes or breaks it. The entire design and assembly of such is the key.
    Plating in general has a character all to its own. IME gold is warm, copper neutral, silver lean, rhodium bright. Now combining the characteristics of wire, dielectric and connectors makes a good marriage.
     We cannot argue that say Rhodium, silver, gold plating alone is good or bad. Just different. If one has a warm system Rhodium would be my recco. If one had a bright system gold would be my recco.
    It is all a balancing act for the designer to come up with a suitable product to represent there line. Just to many variables for a one size fits all cable.
    Since cable manf's have different theories on design is good for us. We get to try them all. Hooray.
    Just keep those cables coming from TWL and Dave. There is room for all.
     Fuses ? let;s get back to fuses.


charles


Exactly.

There is a good reason my higher end cables use some rhodium or platinum plating and my lower end cables are all gold plated. Horses for courses as they say.

What I get the impression of, is that some folks think rhodium is some big scam to pass shitty sounding parts onto us for a premium. This kind of conspiracy theory mentality wrt rhodium is misguided imo. It's simply another choice of platings to keep your connectors from corroding, and having the option to use it, and knowing when to use it is important.

But the other thing is that all platings are not equal. Alloying elements are often added to gold plating to harden it, which degrades performance, and the process and potential underplatings are also important to performance. So I could easily see if you're using cheap Chinese knockoffs that the plating may not be the same quality as what is offered by Furutech and WBT.

I really don't like counterfeit and knockoff products, they are best avoided imo.

Offline Werd

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2014, 10:37:41 AM »
Whats the best way to get a fuse out with out applying to much pressure anywhere?

I just a furutech fuse in and it was a bitch getting the other one out.
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2014, 10:39:37 AM »
http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuse-blocks-fuseholders-and-fuse-accessories/fuse-pullers.aspx


Weeerrd  8)



Or pry it up a little at a time from each end, if access allows.

Offline tmazz

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Re: Fuses for dac
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2014, 10:55:00 AM »
http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuse-blocks-fuseholders-and-fuse-accessories/fuse-pullers.aspx


Weeerrd  8)



Or pry it up a little at a time from each end, if access allows.

Wow, all kinds of different fuse pullers. Who'd a thought?  :-k
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