Single Branded Systems vs Separates

[tmazz]

remember that some brands "design" components because they want to fill their line. They may make great amps and preamps, then they come out with a cd player just to fill in the line and have another component to sell.
eg. , Audio Research makes electronic gear, would you buy their speakers?

Vandersteen makes speakers would you buy his amp?

Now Vandy could make a great amp and AR could make great speakers, but that is not their specialty.

I am not trying to knock the all one brand system, just playing devils advocate trying to bring up points to consider.

Just for the record, ARC did make a great speaker. Lets remember that Magneplanars were originally an Audio Research product. (But your point is still valid.)

[JLM]

A small company that provides complete systems (modded CD source, DAC, pre/phono/power amps, all cabling, speakers, even equipment rack) is Decware.

[topround]

I would love to hear a complete DEcware system.
The components I had heard were OK at best, if the sum is greater than the parts I would love to hear it.

I believe as audiophiles we hope. We hope to believe that the next level of component must be great,we hope because we have this blind faith that the designer MUST know what he is doing. It is not that simple.

We love to put virtual systems together in our head, and I am sure in our head they sound great, but in reality it may not work. Remember our hobby is also driven by profit, manufacturers prey on our weaknesses. buying power cords for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is definetly a sign of weakness, one that any fool would exploit.

Look at Audio Research, it has a massive lineup of gear over the years. If you were to make a list of all the amps and preamps they made you might pick 3 or  4 that really stood out as great products, these products would have not been picked because they came out last or had a higher product number. There are several amps in their lineup that are classic and desirable, many are not, same with their preamps, there are definite sweet spots in most manufacturers lineups.
We all have our ups and downs, we could all put a ARC system together that could sound great or could sound like shit. So system branded synergy...I don't know about that, it could go either way.

Understand I am just using AR as a sample it could be CJ, Macintosh or any  brand for that matter.

Again just offering ideas to muse over

[rollo]

   Blindfaith or hope is not part of the equation. The end result meaning the sound is key here. Different Manufacturers have house sounds. If that sound is pleasing to you Bingo ! if not move on.
    Will a separate component "A" sound the same from system to system ? Will speaker "A" deliverthe same result system to system . No. We talk about the speaker as being the anchor of the system. I disagree. Without ancillary gear it can't plat squat. The amp has the biggest affect on the speaker. Since I do not believe any component is neutral. It is the character of the sound before it enters the speaker that determines the final outcome.
    Then we insert ICs and speaker cables as tone controls to tie it all together. What a game.
    How many times have we had our systems sounding wonderfull and then. Gee if I put this " better" Pre or whatever in it should be even better. NOT. The chase continues.
   With vinyl it even more difficult. Just cannot demo a cart . without buying one. Then the correct phono stage. Arm and so on. It can never end for some.
    Recently took a shot in the dark with the Goldenote Boboli HOMC cart for the Kuzma. Got lucky sound is rich yet detailed. My issue is it the cart or the TT or the combo. Do I now try several others to find out ?  The Nervosa says yes , my ears say why. 
    At the end of the day if one was able to afford the worlds best which is subjective  you would only be getting about 80% of the real live sound. Still would not be enough for some.
  For me there are three criteria . The toe must be a tapping,  in the heart emotion, the desire to sing or dance to the music. If that occurs just no reason to look elsewhere.
 

charles
 
   
   
   
   

[Barry (NJ)]

Charles, there is no perfect sound, no perfect system, but the search for those things, is this, our hobby. I must admit that I'm not a hard-core audiophile hobbiest. My system rarely changes. I can hear the differences between components, cables, all of it, but in general I'm pretty pleased with my system and just enjoy using it. I would not be happy with a system in a box from a major retaler, and I do enjoy listening to other nice systems that people have put together. But the reality is, that this hobby is mostly about playing with the system, and changing it, to observe those changes until the next change comes along.

[Regg]

While you might expect that a single-branded system would be the most obvious way to determine what the 'design goals' are of the manufacturer, I think it would be much easier to get an idea of what the designer intended if we just knew what they used at home. Even if a designer doesn't produce an entire system under their brand name, the components they do produce have to be evaluated somehow--i.e. using speakers or a source component from another manufacturer--and I think it would be more useful for the consumer to know those little details beforehand.

Just as an example, Duke LeJeune from AudioKinesis builds his own line of loudspeakers which are evaluated and tuned using Atma-Sphere and Nuforce amps. Another example is Ralph Karsten from Atma-Sphere, who uses Classic Audio Loudspeakers at home in conjunction with his A-S amps, and whose preference is an analog source.

You can look up the profiles of both of these manufacturers on Audio Asylum to see what they want to achieve with their own systems, but unfortunately you can't do that with everyone. Of course, their 'system goals' may not be in alignment with yours, but at least you get a better understanding of what they're trying to achieve.

In any case, you can't justify the expense without hearing it first, as always.

[rollo]

Charles, there is no perfect sound, no perfect system, but the search for those things, is this, our hobby. I must admit that I'm not a hardcore audiophile hobbyist. My system rarely changes. I can hear the differences between components, cables, all of it, but in general I'm pretty pleased with my system and just enjoy using it. I would not be happy with a system in a box from a major retailer, and I do enjoy listening to other nice systems that people have put together. But the reality is, that this hobby is mostly about playing with the system, and changing it, to observe those changes until the next change comes along.

  Depends on ones goal in the hobby.  No one says it must be a major retailer. The cottage guys as well.  Some like myself are after the live sound of unamplified music. My references are Carnegie Hall, my Son's guitar and my trumpet in our listening room . We even set up a snare drum and cymbals one day.
   No one is saying there is perfect sound, just different sounds.
   All I'm trying to convey that there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat.  A one manf. system just may do that a tad easier.
   What is one mans nirvana may not be anothers. What does Anthony Gallo use to voice his speakers ? Different amps or one ? Is there not a housesound ? Are they one size fits all or can they sound better with what Anthony uses ? When you bring the Gallos over to the Rave meets do they sound the same to you as in your system ? Personally I have heard them sound thin and lean or rich and dimensional at other times.
   The entire system is responsible for the outcome. If one desires to cut the chase then maybe a particular "house sound" just may do. If one is desirous of constant change so be it. The chase can be fun for some laborious for others.
   After being around our hobby for 40+ years, hearing top reviewers home systems and many others I feel that what we are chasing comes in such small increments is it really worth it ? Coming from a dealer no less. KISS baby that's the real ticket. To each his own, nothing carved in stone. 


charles
     

[tmazz]

While you might expect that a single-branded system would be the most obvious way to determine what the 'design goals' are of the manufacturer, ......

And I think that is one of the keys to this whole discussion. A single branded system would only be better to you if your listening preferences were in sync with those of the designer (assuming of course that his design goals were based on his own listening preferences.)

[James Edward]

I now have an all Bryston system, and am glad to be off the equipment merry go round.
After years of sometimes excellent mixed equipment results, I got sick of minor, yet irritating unpredictability. Noise issues, volume controls that were LOUD at the 9 o,clock position, and a phono preamp that would emit the sound of a dentist drill with a certain cartridge and preamp combo. My Moscode amp transformer would hum merrily along as soon as I turned on the Juicy Music Blueberry preamp that fed it.
Now, with the same manufacturer for cd, amp, and preamp, the volume control has reasonable range, the system is dead quiet, and the amp transformer is silent.
I am sure that with the right combination of different brands, musical Nirvana exists. I have just been burned one too many times and need a
Break.
Having an all Bryston system robs me of some hifi bona fides, but it keeps my blood pressure in check, and sounds great too.
I have seasoned the system with KCI Silkworm interconnects and Shunyata power cords.
Thanks for reading...

[rollo]

While you might expect that a single-branded system would be the most obvious way to determine what the 'design goals' are of the manufacturer, ......

And I think that is one of the keys to this whole discussion. A single branded system would only be better to you if your listening preferences were in sync with those of the designer (assuming of course that his design goals were based on his own listening preferences.)

  No chit man. Thats the whole idea. Gotta be a house sound that floats the boat.
   Well James glad you are happy. I think the boys are going to be surprised at our Jan. AudioSyndrome meeting.


charles


charles

[JLM]

Too bad, but I also listen with my brain.  In other words, I'm trying to think about if the design "makes sense" to me, I'm damn cheap, and I have prejudices (for instance zero tolerance of vinyl surface noise).

I tried to like the whole Decware scene, as I liked KISS, small amps, American build, active forum (years ago), and great prices.  But lets just say there were aspects of Decware that I couldn't jive with.

[mac5u]

I tried to like the whole Decware scene, as I liked KISS, small amps, American build, active forum (years ago), and great prices.  But lets just say there were aspects of Decware that I couldn't jive with. 

As in....?  SET?  Amp noise?  The sound?  Just curious because I read their forums from time-to-time although not so much lately.  I mentioned in another thread here that in 2012, I intend on making a speaker and amp purchase decision and a Decware speaker and / or amp is on the list of possible candidates.

[Werd]

Nice old thread worth necroing. My goal in system building is to hear my source component. Once you got your speakers in house the source rules IMO. Having a full out same brand system sometimes can lead to drowning out the source component. The same pre amp, amp, and perhaps speakers and cables can really make it hard to tweak out source gear.
Mcintosh gear comes to mind. Individual components are nice but the whole system just gets to much Mcintosh and it makes it hard to hear the source component. Idk it's how I do it.

[DaveC]

I agree that if a certain manufacturer has the same sonic priorities as you and makes a complete system that it might be a good way to go, especially if you don't want to put a lot of effort into it.

But I'm sure for most of us, that would not work out so well because we won't find that sonic match, instead we think that matching components will produce a result closer to what we want.

I started with a pair of speakers, eventually I ended up building an amp for it because what I wanted was not feasible to purchase because of high prices and limited selection.

I also think if you're going for a neutral sounding source, then the source component's synergy with the rest of the system is less important (relative to amp and speaker synergy) with modern digital sources. They all put out 2V and can drive pretty much any amplification source. But since nothing is completely neutral, there is still at least some consideration of the sound characteristics of the source.

And even if you do have a system with all the same brand components, you will still need to power them and connect them up, which requires power distribution and cabling that can have a very significant effect on the overall sound...

 

[Werd]

Having a neutral sounding source is good but with hi rez playback i am less interested in synergy than nerfing resolution. I find I will take resolution over knee jerk synergy always.  Only because having something soothed over is more of a bandaid approach compared to an accurate playback of the recording. It seems also if you can keep distortion and noise down, bandaiding or synergy is less important. Synergy is something that started in the 80s with all that redbook crap gear and recordings. Thats how i see it.

What is important is hearing a difference between a hi rez and a likewise red book recording. If you can't tell the difference and so often with full out brands system thats the case, why bother with hi rez? Thats why i put so much emphasis on source gear and hearing it. Because if you can its going to sound good. You can always tweak too with cables, room treats to match your tastes. Speaker types and tube types also.