Author Topic: What have been your audio epiphanies?  (Read 11939 times)

Offline JLM

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2009, 03:07:41 AM »
Thanks Scotty and AcidJazz.

An epiphany can be defined, but not all have experienced it.  I enjoy the enlightenment it brings.  It helps to define my world and narrows the path I should travel.  Contrary to Ken or shep I've found it much less frustrating and cheaper to have had epiphanies than than the alternative of chasing my tail on misguided pursuits.

Too little time is spent in this fast paced modern world doing and not being.  We've become human doings (its beyond "fashionable" to simply "have no time" or to have every waking second programmed).  We've lost the touch with the essence of being human beings (creatures that exercies their abilities for higher thought and contemplation).

If you're here, you've been touched by something insightful that extended your audio understanding, dare I say something essential to your being.  Reflecting on those epiphanies bring satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offline tmazz

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2009, 08:11:06 AM »
I can understand where Ken and Shep are coming from. One of the things that audio epiphanies have in common is that they either occur during a time when you are very satisfied with the system you have or they take a direction that you are or are looking to take your system and turn it around on  its ear. They are invariably accompanied by a feeling  of "DAM, I've got to get me one of those!!!"   :mrgreen:. and then very often followed by a felling of either frustration, or simply more searching, because what we though was the golden ticket to audio nirvana doesn't sound as good in our system as we thought (or wished ) it would because we don't have the same room or equipment synergies or even just play the same music as in the demo we heard. It is also because audio memory and imagination often inflated the quality of a past audio session to something that it actually never was. (This effect is also very prevalent among middle aged (ex-) athletes. Recent get together of guys I played ice hockey with back in my college days turned  to stories about the "good old days." After about a  half hour of reminiscing I commented to my teammates "Has anybody else noticed that the older we get, the better we were?")  So the original epiphany can lead to spending money that you just didn't think you needed to spend before it occured and can also lead to frustration as your system does not produce quite the same sound as you remember (or imagined) from the original demo.  This can lead you further spending to chase what you heard. Or in the alternative the new purchase can do just what you had oped for but at the same time reveal shortcomings elsewhere in the system that were not apparent before, with the same results, more equipment purchases. It can become a viscous cycle of frustration and expenses that would not have happened without the epiphany because you were (at least temporarily) happy with things the way they were.

As for personal epiphanies I have had two over the last 12 months or so that had nothing at all to do with hearing anything.

First let me start by saying that I have a good friend that until recently owned and operated a high end audio shop. over the last 25 or so years I have spent many afternoons "lost" in his store helping him dial in an new set up of some of the new top of the line models by manufacturers like, Thiel, Martin Logan, Audio Research, Classe' Oracle,etc., none of which I could afford at the time, but all of which I immensely enjoyed listening to   :drool: (Heck, there was always Lotto.)

Epiphany #1 - Given the recent economic trouble we have been going through, much of this top of the line equipment that I had lusted over for years was now being sold of on a regular basis for 12 to 25 cents on the dollar. $10 -20K speakers that can be had for $3-5K, $4K amplifiers for $800. Granted, this stuff is not as good as some of the top of the line equipment today, something that sounded amazing 10 years ago will still sound amazing today. And with the exception of digital front ends whose technology seems to change on almost a weekly basis, I'm not sure there have been many quantum leaps in audio quality over the last 15 years. Refinements, yes, but quantum leaps, not so much. Unfortunately as a baby-boomer the near(er) term prospect of retirement has brought some common sense into my spending decisions (doesn't that suck?)   ](*,) So without an audio epiphany to drive some stupidity into the thought process, I just ended up sitting on the sidelines and admiring the prices. Until.....

Epiphany #2 - Late this summer my wife's brother was diagnosed with lung cancer. (I actually just came back from his funeral last night. It was actually a blessing that he went so fast as there was no coming back from where it was when they found it. Sometimes fast is good) Back in Sept, during  last time we visited with him (he live almost 600 miles away) he made a statement that really stuck with me. He said "Tom, stop putting things off until tomorrow, because you never know how many tomorrows you have left." This is something I should have well understood since my own father dropped dead of a heart attack at age 46, but sometimes you just need to get hit in the head with the obvious. The day after we got back from that trip a pair of those speakers that I had lusted over appeared on Audiogon for only$2400. I took it as a message from God. My logical engineer brain now took over and pushed me in the other direction. I figured, if $2400 is going to make or break my financial stability in retirement, I have much bigger problems than whether or not to buy a pair of speakers. Armed with that logic I approached my wife, who would have to buy in on this deal since it would be very tough to sneak a pair of speakers weighting 150 lbs a piece into the house without her noticing it.  She took one look at the ad and said, "What are you going to do, wait until you are old and half deaf and decide to but the speakers when you can hear them anymore? Just do it. When was the last time your wife actually told you to buy some new audio gear???   :D/ That in and of itself was probably as much of an epiphany as anything else in the story. So anyway, I am actually now the proud owner of a of a pair of Thiel CS-6s and loving every minute of it. And every time the system gets turned on both my wife and I both think of her brother, which is actually quite appropriate because although he was an equipment neophyte, Ray was a big music lover.  :beer:

This post has gone on to become quite long winded, but the bottom line is that epiphanies often come from places that you would least except find them.
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline rollo

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2009, 08:50:55 AM »
May he rest in peace. Kinda cool that when you fire them up found memories can be had . God bless.



charles
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Offline JLM

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2009, 02:39:24 AM »
Part of playing the audio hunt smartly is in trying to look ahead.  As many others have mentioned, digital sourcing continues to develop very quickly, so I've kept my investment there to a minimum.  The key is to balance the depreciation with the derived utility (in this case enjoyment).  It's the same with anything you buy/use, especially with personal computing over the past generation, but that seems to be slowing down (which is a bit scary as so much of the U.S. economy comes from computer related upgrading and besides the market appears to be saturated).  Looking ahead and making wise investments is a good way to avoid buyer's remorse.

Except of someday finding my ideal music server I have no immediate interest in making new audio purchases.  Yet I continue to hunt, mostly for the fun of it, but also to remain an informed consumer.  In this mode of always looking ahead and weighing out the cost versus benefits my epiphanies have come before making major purchases.

OTOH my values were skewed in the past few years with the revelation that I have congenital heart disease and now type 2 diabetes.  So now I'm a bit more free with my play money and will definitely retire sooner than later.  And there's always the tmazz's wife's observation that we someday may have more play money, but may not have the ears to enjoy the improved fidelity.  (Kinda like sports cars, by the time you can afford a nice one, you're toupee blows off with the top down, there's no place for your walker, you can't get in or out of those low gull wing doors, and the          s only want you for the money.   :(

Offline bmr3hc

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2009, 08:23:50 AM »
Sorry to hear about your brother. He gave some great advise about tomorrows. Tomorrow is not promised to anyone. If you can find/make time for family, give thanks and have some time for music before the day is over, its a great day!

Henry
"If music be the food of love, play on."  Shakespeare

Offline bmr3hc

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2009, 08:39:06 AM »
"Henry, I’m not convinced that you need to spend tons in order to find audio nirvana. "

I agree 100%. But back in the 80's some companies like mark Levinson and Linn just made great equipment for music, and most of it then was not cheap. Today, you can get some great stuff with great sound and significantly less monies. In fact my second epiphany was if you can get 80% of the sound for 20% cost you have done great. The remaining 20% of sound is still likely to cost dearly. These days I can only afford the 20% cost factor with pretty good affect.
"If music be the food of love, play on."  Shakespeare

Offline Carlman

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2009, 09:17:41 AM »
"Henry, I’m not convinced that you need to spend tons in order to find audio nirvana. "
Once.. The quote should read: "Henry, I’m not convinced that you need to spend tons in order to find audio nirvana once."

If 1 epiphane is enough for you, then you're done, money is spent, call it a day... But I can't even keep count how many epiphanes I've had in this hobby.  Not all of them have been about hifi either.. it's about finding friends you can enjoy it with as well.  Not to mention being introduced to various other things that provide 'aha' moments..

If you stay in this hobby and receive all it has to offer, you will probably spend tons.  Not everyone will.. but most will. ;)
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline rollo

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2009, 11:31:07 AM »
  I agree that one does not have to spend tons. When you go around the block a few times you realize all the BS, hype, etc. is just that.
   Synergy of components is the key to assembling a great system. There is nothing more important than hands on experience. Over the years going to the shows, different homes it starts to make sense. Its all about trade offs no system is perfect no gear is .
   As Carlman found out the "Room" itself is more important than the gear. Now, more than before the room he can easily discern the nuances between gear, ICs, powercords.
 My epiphanies have come much later in my life as the realization of it all has sunk in.


charles
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Offline richidoo

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2009, 12:55:58 PM »
My first epiphany was I never knew how good recorded music could sound. At local dealer, AR/Wilson/Transparent, yadayada. I have still not heard a system as good as that, or at least not felt as emotionally connected to such perfect sounding playback. But listening skills grow with time and maybe I have heard better but not felt that way.  Maybe because I am seasoned audiophile now I will never have that first kiss feeling again. But homeostasis works both ways.

My second epiphany is more recent and more gradual. It doesn't have to cost a lot to sound good. More DIY opportunities are available now than ever, and more value brands are appearing, especially in response to the poor economy.

My 3rd epiphany is also recent. Music is more important than audio quality. I took my system past the threshold of enjoyability into too much detail, fortunately with borrowed gear. From that I learned the importance of musical satisfaction within the equation used to justify owning specialized playback equipment. I realized that the perception of "music" ranges from "beat/melody/words" to "tone/dynamics/air." We all live somewhere in that range, moving around a little with the seasons, but I am happiest leaning toward the former. I fell in love with music on midfi, it was good enough then and good enough now. I am blessed to have a system that is far better than "good enough," but I'm still looking to further refine my performance/value ratio in the future. Glistening highs is not necessary, nor is earth rumbling lows. But clear open alive sound within the musical bandwidth 40-15k is good enough to fully connect emotionally.

Offline Carlman

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2009, 02:52:25 PM »
So you've discovered what's most important to you (an epiphany all on its own) and now you're working on how to get it.  Maybe that's what is so appealing about this hobby.

If you can get your mind around what you want out of an audio system.. can you apply that method to other 'systems' and eventually your whole life? 

It's a great way to start thinking about the rest of your world... and making changes that help you get what you want.

And that's one to grow on... ;)
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline richidoo

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2009, 04:50:01 PM »
I agree - that audio, or any serious hobby is full of life's lessons, to be learned in a fun way.

Offline bmr3hc

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2009, 07:22:39 PM »
Once you are in, there may be too many epiphanies to count :drool:

Henry
"If music be the food of love, play on."  Shakespeare

Offline _Scotty_

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2009, 07:46:55 PM »
I think one of the things I've learned in the course of pursuing this hobby is that if you want to proceed forward towards ever higher fidelity you cannot expect your system to sound the same only better after you put in a superior piece of gear. It has to sound different than it did before and possibly somewhat unfamiliar as you work your way up the learning curve.  This was brought home forcefully when I changed from CD playback to playback from computer hard drive and then from USB flash drive. Recordings became much more enjoyable when the computer was the source. The music sounded much better but it was in many cases a lot different listening experience than I was used to and familiar recordings changed in dramatic and unexpected ways. I don't know if I would call this an epiphany but it has been an exciting ear opening experience.
Scotty
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 08:28:48 PM by _Scotty_ »

Offline hometheaterdoc

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2009, 06:54:44 AM »
My 3rd epiphany is also recent. Music is more important than audio quality.

I wish I could agree with this... and I'm sure, given that I have a business selling gear that I have all sorts of biases when it comes to this... but if the sound quality is not there, I simply won't listen.  I'd rather not listen than have to listen to a system I feel is not up to snuff.  Can't and won't do it.  The gear will just sit there gathering dust.

The same holds true of of music recording quality.  A couple things that are not recorded well i can deal with.  Those pieces of music that I'm just completely in love with no matter how badly it is recorded.  There are always exceptions to any rule.  But in general, if it's not recorded well, it doesn't get listened to on any system I own. 

There have been very very very few instances in my audiophile life where I've been able to turn off my brain and just enjoy music.  I'm always hearing things that aggravate me and I can't NOT hear the issue once I have.  I definitely lean more towards wanting something, if its going to have a deficiency, to be an error of omission, not an error of commission.  It's why I've built fully custom stereo systems in my vehicles and still usually drive in silence because no matter what I do, it still sounds like crap... I'm going to try for the second time in my truck in the coming weeks.  Some Audyssey Pro gear for time and frequency manipulation, some Scanspeak Illuminator drivers, and maybe some warm sounding crossover parts will work this time.  The Butler tube hybrid amps help somewhat.... but finding a good sounding head unit is next to impossible....

I really wish I didn't hear the things I do.  I really wish I could be ignorant and listen to my boombox and be able to enjoy the music.  I just can't no matter what I try....
Shane Sangster
Used to be Night & Day Audio.......

Offline Carlman

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Re: What have been your audio epiphanies?
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2009, 07:15:25 AM »
I totally understand your point, Shane.. and I have a little bit of that.. but I've found, the crappier the system, the more I switch off my analytical brain to a point..

It's like there's a 'goodness level' where the needle sits in a middle range.. where if it goes too far to the 'better' side, the recording quality must then go up, making what I can enjoy smaller and smaller..
then going the other way to the 'poor' side I can listen to more music to the point that I just discount the system and listen to the music, talk, and enjoy company, etc.. i.e. like background quality.. but then if you bottom out the bad side, it's so crappy it's annoying to hear anything, I just turn it off..

Good luck with the 12v project!
I really enjoy listening to music.