AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Speakers => Topic started by: BobM on March 14, 2011, 09:33:18 AM
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Apogee Calipers, that is.
Old and beat up for sure, but the sound is pretty wonderful. Definitely a restoration project for the cabinets (replace bad wood, foam padding, paint job) and the crossover (replace all parts, probably in an external box). Starting the research on this all now.
A few of the guys were over this weekend to give them a listen in their less than pristene form. They are keepers. The picture below is not my actual speaker, just something from Google images.
(http://home.swipnet.se/~w-52025/images/apogee.jpg)
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They do sound nice & you have the perfect "current" amplifier to drive those crazy low impedance loads... I won't be bringing my monoblocks over for you to try out on those black hole energy consuming speakers...maybe a powercord though and some salt & limes for the tequila! Enjoy, Bob!
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Yeah, the DNA 500 didn't even break a sweat, even though the volume knob on my preamp was at 12:00 or more to reach a normal listening volume.
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Hey Bob, great news. The Sprauge caps gotta go as well as the flimsy made Apogee inductors. you think they sound good now which they do the mods will bring them to another level. Enjoy the trip. The Nervosa never ends. I see two 8ga Triode Labs powercords being made right now.
charles
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Bob I know your room is kind of small ,how are they set up off the walls ?
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Nice, enjoy 'em!
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The apogee experts recco 5ft apart about 3.5 ft off the rear wall with the tweeters on the inside when close to side walls. However the listening distance of 10 to 12 ft may be an issue.
I'm Bob is trying every configuration known to Mankind. he knows his shit. Have fun trying hope they work for your room.
charles
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Hey Congrats Bob! Nice find.
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The apogee experts recco 5ft apart about 3.5 ft off the rear wall with the tweeters on the inside when close to side walls. However the listening distance of 10 to 12 ft may be an issue.
I'm Bob is trying every configuration known to Mankind. he knows his shit. Have fun trying hope they work for your room.
charles
Might have to flip the setup 90 degrees and put the speakers along the short wall. Of course that would invole the WAF.... [-o< [-(
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Actually they are not far different from where my old speakers were. About 4 feet off the back wall. About 5 feet apart (tweeter to tweeter). I'm about 10 feet from them. Some interesting findings so far:
- Toe in crimps the soundstage dramatically. These need to fire straight ahead.
- I get a fairly wide soundstage. Left and right on the couch you can still hear the other speaker pretty well. Of course it is far better in the middle.
- They do like to be played loud, and when loud they have a dynamic I never heard from a Maggie.
- They suck power. Halfway on the volume knob, which would normally be pretty damn loud, is a normal comfortable listening volume. Luckily the McCormack DNA 500 is built for this kind of load.
- I'm talking to the remaining Apogee service guys about tweaks and upgrade ideas and such. There's plenty of research to do before I jump into any soldering and improvements.
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Cool. Enjoy them Bob. I believe there is an Apogee user forum somewhere out there.
charles
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http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/
There's a link to the forum pages on the home page as well.
This is Graeme Keets(AKA:"Graz") site,he bought the rights to the "Apogee" name in '06.
Also: http://www.apogeespeakers.com/
The older but still maintained info site.
Sigh,wish I had enough room to set up my Duetta Sigs,oh well......
Enjoy Bob!!!!! :thumb:
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Hey Bob, Besides power cords, (there's this local guy named Pete something...you might want to give a call, he's got some nice stuff) the Ap's are also very revealing of speaker cables which of course, must be bi-wired for best sound. I've tried several combinations including a pair of the original Symo cable which were considered THE match for them back in their heyday ( I still have then ). I ran them into the mid/tweeters and found them extremely detailed and open, ymmv. I have settled on Harmonic Technology pro 9 and pro 11 series which really flesh out the details nicely but also seem to add a nice richness which the ribbons may sometimes like; depending on your electronics. Overall, I'm glad things are moving along as you continue "buffing out the new diamonds". Stay in touch. G
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Yeah, that Pete guy. I think he's Polish, so I'm not sure I can trust his work. :rofl:
Oh wait, I'm Polish too. Przepraszam (excuse me)
Dziekuje (thank you)
(ps - Pete and I are neighbors)
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BobM, have you got one of Pete's 8awg PCs on your McCormack yet? I've very eager to hear it!
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Pete is apparently burning it in for me to try out.
I do have an "RFM Special" on my preamp though. It's a combination of 2 different gauges that I experimented with to good effect. He's not offering that on the website though. It was an experiment.
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BobM, have you got one of Pete's 8awg PCs on your McCormack yet? I've very eager to hear it!
I do , but my amp died the next day and haven't tried it out yet
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BobM, have you got one of Pete's 8awg PCs on your McCormack yet? I've very eager to hear it!
It was a big time winner on my amp. :thumb:
I hope it does as well on yours. :drool:
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Pete is apparently burning it in for me to try out.
I do have an "RFM Special" on my preamp though. It's a combination of 2 different gauges that I experimented with to good effect. He's not offering that on the website though. It was an experiment.
Currently burning in (1st stage Hagerman FryCorder & now on 2nd stage with a high current (>12 amp) load bank) with a 20 amp IEC... Will be ready Friday! :thumb:
Audios,
Pete
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Pete, I've got a serious power cord itch in need of scratching :rofl:
Keep me posted and count me in!
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Here's a pic of one speaker pre-renovation. The original owner tried to use some wood putty to fill a gap in the seam, rather than gluing and clamping it. Not a pretty site.
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Here's the guts
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and the rebuilt crossover
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and a new refinish ... fill, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, ... ad infinitum. Not perfect, there are still a few small blamishes but it's far better than it was and I can live with the rest. I also had to dampen the panels in a few places. These ribbons are old and they do buzz and flap a bit down at 30Hz. The dampening did a pretty good job of getting rid of that without harming the rest of the sound.
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Nice job in reclaiming your speakers...looking much better :thumb:!
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They look pretty damned good to me Bob. Nice job. I hope you enjoy them! :thumb:
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Wow! Awesome Bob! xo looks nice! What color is that, metallic dark gray?
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It's Lowes metallic silver spray (the darker one that they sell). It does a much better job of helping the speakers to look less obtrusive in the room than the matte black of the original. It's kind of like a Wilson silver, if you know what I mean.
I've still got to finish up the right one. Hopefully today once the temperature rises a bit so I can spray, spray, spray.
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It's kind of like a Wilson silver, if you know what I mean.
That was my first impression too. Looks really sharp. The metallic give some pop like a high gloss job but without the work.
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It's kind of like a Wilson silver, if you know what I mean.
Holy cow! You know we are an obsessive bunch when somebody can identify a paint color by linking it to a equipment manufacturer and we all know what he is talking about. :rofl:
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Like saying "Ferrari Red" :D
Wilson's standard color is called "Dark Titanium"
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Cool, Bob! Can't wait to hear them (again)! :thumb:
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Looking good Bob.
charles
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Well done Bob!!! It looks great!
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Looks good Bob, I knew they'd spiff up. I'm looking forward to hearing the upgraded crossovers. G
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Bob,
They look new!
Great job, can't wait to hear them
Mike
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Looks good Bob, I knew they'd spiff up. I'm looking forward to hearing the upgraded crossovers. G
Me too 8-[ ;)
charles
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Looks good Bob, I knew they'd spiff up. I'm looking forward to hearing the upgraded crossovers. G
Me too 8-[ ;)
charles
In light of what has been discussed lately on some of the other threads, I'm looking forward to hearings some really nice music through them. :thumb:
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DONE and DONE
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nice Bob! I have to say that was fast! You fixed the tweeter too? and no more buzzing?
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DONE and DONE
Very nice! Enjoy them! :thumb:
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Well the buzzing is gone on any normal recording. On truly deep audiophile bass torture tracks there is a mechanical flapping that is heard as the ribbon hits against it's magnets in some spots. Nothing much I can do about that, except stay away from playing those tracks loud.
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" once you go flat, you never go back"
Would you say that to be true, Bob?
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Looking good :thumb:
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" once you go flat, you never go back"
Would you say that to be true, Bob?
These do stand rather upright and seem fat from the front, but they are rather slim from the side view. The difference between these any my previous speakers.
- more transparent but still not forward sounding, that forwardness or over etched sound and discontinuity with the rest of the speaker kept me away from ribbon tweeters in the past
- more dimentional - side to side and front to back
- a very nice focus point in the middle for sounstaging and imaging, almost like there is a center speaker
- just about as much dynamic pop, which I never heard from a panel before vs a cone speaker
- more "of a kind" or "continuous" meaning top to bottom wholeness - no sense of a crossover point or of a different sound between tweeter and woofer - it is all true ribbon
- they take power, and more power, and more power to drive - they are piggies
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Rave time :thumb:
Did you sell your other speakers ?
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nope, they're just standing in a corner looking all lonely and pouting.
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They sound & look great! Full bodied sounding ribbons! Detailed but real & natural sounding! The REL subwoofer blends in perfectly... couldn't hear it (a good thing). Imaging unbelievable... never heard Maggies or Martin Logans image like that!
Really nice job on the crossovers! Bob definitely has keepers! Lucky you have that monster McCormack amp... those Apogees need plenty of power; that's for sure!
Great job, Bob!!!
Audios,
Pete
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Grant came over today and helped me set up my new babies correctly. He's had a lot of experience with his own Apogees and those little 1/2" differences really do make a difference with these finicky speakers.
But it sounds really good right now. :thumb:
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Grant came over today and helped me set up my new babies correctly. He's had a lot of experience with his own Apogees and those little 1/2" differences really do make a difference with these finicky speakers.
But it sounds really good right now. :thumb:
Cool! :thumb:
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Bob, You were already 90+% of the way there, all it took was that last bit of fine tuning. I agree, they really are "locking in" beautifully now... As any Apogee owner will tell you, they really appreciate the last iota of attention, and reward you royally for the TLC. Nice job Bob, I'm really pleased for you with how well they match your equipment (DNA 500 ='s warp drive power with a dash of tube) and how well they're integrating into your room. Congratulations. Grant