AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Bipolar System Disorders => Topic started by: Nick B on November 04, 2015, 08:20:12 PM
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It's been ages since I broke in any cables or equipment. The last piece was the McCormack DNA 1.0 amp that Steve McCormack upgraded to gold level. He put some hours on it. I got it home and out of the box it sounded pretty good, then good, then great. I just played it, took some notes and after 100 hours I was very happy.
This Antelope dac was nib. The first 24 hours were really painful to the ears. Very strident...sibilance on vocals...trumpets and strings...harsh cymbals etc. After 24 hours I installed the Black Sand Silver Reference pc on the dac and found my trusty old JPS IC that works nice as a digital cable. The pc added weight and the combo smoothed things out a bit. There is less harshness after 35 hours and playing at night after 900 pm
makes quite a difference. Reminds me of the dirty power when I was living in Los Angeles. I'm not using nor have ever used a power conditioner. I'll keep putting the hours on, but I'm concerned
that this dac is so revealing that it's especially sensitive to outside grunge of all sorts. I have no idea if the Straley SCs and Grover Huffman ICs I'm using are shielded or not.
On the plus side, the dac is very revealing, has wonderful texture and body and is very accurate as to the original recording. It's the best I've had in the house. As a final point, I have the SPTech Timepiece 2 s that are very revealing as well
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That's a lot of intense audiophile type gear! You must like it straight no chaser!
The DAC is extremely revealling, and intense. It is the alpha male of DACs. Very stimulating. But it is not unrefined, you shouldn't hear any grunge if it's working right, and broken in. Talk with your dealer or mfg about what to expect. Maybe Shane will chime in, he used to sell them and knows the deal.
Hookup the DAC to an unused input on preamp or whatever and just let it play loud compressed pop music like iheartradio at full volume for a week 24/7. 3 weeks is 500 hours. The load (input) doesn't have to be powered. I can email the Frybaby break-in track on mp3 if you want it. They make Volticus power supply that would eliminate worries about power quality, but I doubt you need that.
If it was so harsh when new, I'm sure there's more breakin to go, it's still a baby.
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You had better figure on about 500 hrs. of break-in. It should be a better at 250hrs. than it is right now. Straley SCs are not shielded nor are the ICs.
It sounds like you are using the SPDIF input. An outboard USB to SPDIF converter will be sensitive to noise on the AC line and the power cord used as will the DAC. Unless the JPS IC meets the SPDIF 75ohm standard there may be a problem with how the Dac sounds, of course there may be problems even if it does meet the spec.
Lots of variables in play. Which Antelope Dac is it?
Be sure to keep us updated on the break-in process.
Scotty
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Yup agree 500 hours. Disagree on method. The dielectric needs to settle. try 12 hours on 12 hours off. That is the most affective method I have tried over the years. ENJOY.
charles
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the antelope stuff, especially the gold and voltikus power supply (which is what Nick has) needs a lot of time to fully break in.... definitely 500 hours+ or hard running... none of the antelope stuff I had on demo sounded good out of the box... you could tell it needed a lot of break in... 100 hours was a start, but needed more...
they were sensitive to power feeding them... but not necessarily anymore than other products.. I think I've had darn near every type and brand of power conditioning product over the years... the one product that has universally worked and (as long as you didn't overload it) didn't kill dynamics and life is the power re-generator style.... I run each of my systems on a PS Audio P10... I've got very wild swings in AC voltage at my place and a lot of noise on the lines... the P10 cleans it and I don't notice any difference in sound between daytime listening and late at night with it in the chain...
the antelope stuff is intense sounding (like that description Rich! :) haha).... not a romantic sound at all... very direct and clean and detailed.... the voltikus or some form of linear power supply was very helpful in fleshing out the bottom end... the switcher supply didn't have the depth or impact as the linear power supply did... it helped round things a touch.... was too lean with the switching supply...
the combination of equipment is likely contributing to a 2+2 = 6 scenario... those speakers are not known for being very forgiving or laid back or warm sounding... your amp is likely pretty clean sounding as well given the base products I've listened to in the past (I've not heard the amp in question modded like you have it right now... but I doubt the modding made it warm and rounded sounding).... adding the very revealing DAC is likely just one for light shining and tipping the balance a bit beyond what you may want to hear... based on what you've got, you'll definitely hear the changes as the DAC breaks in, though...
the antelope stuff is a very nice product line.... I've found others I prefer in the interim time since I started carrying the product line... but even today, it still holds up very well...
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Ive heard good things about the Antelope dac. Was on my list but out of reach price wise. It must have teflon caps :lol:
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I want your dac. What is the voltage and current on the aftermarket power supplies?
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Yes, as Shane said, it's a Gold with the Voltikus power supply. So I have intense speakers, dac and not quite as intense an amp (IMO) Hmmm...where is this headed ha ha. I know the SP Techs can be ruthless and as I recall Ken aka Bigfish had these some years ago and sold them.
I am a detail freak, but have had years of lean, kinda mean sound and I sure don't want to go down that route anymore. I decided within the last year or so that I do like the detail, but it all needs to be a bit on the warm side. I think I can get there with this setup, but it may hinge on the cables. The only cables I've auditioned within the last year and a half were DaveC's Zen Audio stuff and that was using the Buffalo 32 dac that Rich sold me. Very nice sound. The cables were probably the D3s.
BTW Werd, I got the dac from a dealer for $2,400
Rich, can you email me the Frybaby? I'm assuming I just need to drag and drop it into my music folder, correct?
Scotty..I am using the spdif out. The JPS uses a WBT locking rca which I think is around 75 ohms, but that's just a guess. It has worked well before, but I never have used it on a dac like the Gold.
Charles, I'm not running it 24/7 It does get 10-12 hours a day.
Jim, I stumbled onto this dac and have been thinking about it for a couple of years. As I had the money in my audio slush fund, I felt the $2,400 was a good price.
Well, after tonight, I'll have 50 hours on it. Am using a Diana Krall CD as a reference point and playing tons of other stuff just for fun
Nick
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the antelope stuff, especially the gold and voltikus power supply (which is what Nick has) needs a lot of time to fully break in.... definitely 500 hours+ or hard running... none of the antelope stuff I had on demo sounded good out of the box... you could tell it needed a lot of break in... 100 hours was a start, but needed more...
they were sensitive to power feeding them... but not necessarily anymore than other products.. I think I've had darn near every type and brand of power conditioning product over the years... the one product that has universally worked and (as long as you didn't overload it) didn't kill dynamics and life is the power re-generator style.... I run each of my systems on a PS Audio P10... I've got very wild swings in AC voltage at my place and a lot of noise on the lines... the P10 cleans it and I don't notice any difference in sound between daytime listening and late at night with it in the chain...
the antelope stuff is intense sounding (like that description Rich! :) haha).... not a romantic sound at all... very direct and clean and detailed.... the voltikus or some form of linear power supply was very helpful in fleshing out the bottom end... the switcher supply didn't have the depth or impact as the linear power supply did... it helped round things a touch.... was too lean with the switching supply...
the combination of equipment is likely contributing to a 2+2 = 6 scenario... those speakers are not known for being very forgiving or laid back or warm sounding... your amp is likely pretty clean sounding as well given the base products I've listened to in the past (I've not heard the amp in question modded like you have it right now... but I doubt the modding made it warm and rounded sounding).... adding the very revealing DAC is likely just one for light shining and tipping the balance a bit beyond what you may want to hear... based on what you've got, you'll definitely hear the changes as the DAC breaks in, though...
the antelope stuff is a very nice product line.... I've found others I prefer in the interim time since I started carrying the product line... but even today, it still holds up very well...
Shane,
Forgot to ask. What are you preferring in dacs nowadays?
Nick
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Rich, can you email me the Frybaby? I'm assuming I just need to drag and drop it into my music folder, correct?
Sent. Scan your folder so the player knows it's there. :)
DAC volume up full
Play frybaby on repeat
Connect DAC output to another component's input, lower input impedance is faster. 10kOhms or lower is good. 600 ohms is ideal because zodiac is designed for high end pro audio. But it will still work with any load.
Turn off everything but the DAC. You don't want to hear it. DAC still sees the load even if the load is off.
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Nick.
Good price! Good luck
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65 hours so far. Serious listening from 10pm to 130am. Nice, clean AC and very nice sound. On the right song, this dac can produce a huge soundstage. I am very surprised that the Straley SCs and Grover Huffman ICs can do that. The resolution continues to amaze me. Harshness is much reduced. Was listening to lots of different music and Enya and Nana Mouskouri who is my gold standard for a female voice.
What is interesting is the rapid improvement in SQ. I put in the different cables at about 30 hours. The Black Sound power cord and JPS IC which I use as the digital out have been sitting in a drawer for a year or two. Did they need a little break in as I had to twist them a bit to get them in place? I have no idea. The JPS has the flexible metal tube...kinda looks like a smaller version of a flexible gas stove tube. I've had it since the mid 90s before JPS became a big name.
Thanks for the Frybaby Rich. I have no other gear hooked up right now. Can I just plug the dac out cable into my unused phono stage? Does the phono need to be plugged in? In all these years, I've always broken stuff in live. Sometimes at low volume and sometimes high. As to the amount of volume, isn't it a very tiny signal, and if so, why would increasing the volume have a big affect. If you could elaborate, I'd appreciate it
Nick
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Live is fine. Do what you're used to.
I suggested different load only to speed up the process by increasing the amount of current drawn from the DAC. But that is a presumption on my part, that working the DAC harder speeds break in. That's just how I do it.
I skimmed the Zodiac manual - Zodiac XLR outputs have professional voltage level so they can probably handle a 600 ohm load, but the RCA outputs are consumer voltage level so the lowest input impedance you should connect the DAC to is 5kOhms, imo. Every commercial consumer product will have input impedance of >10k. The only inputs lower than that I've ever heard of were some older Oddysey amps which were 7kOhm input. New Oddysey amps are higher now iirc.
Lower load impedance will draw more current from the Zodiac output stage amplifier, which, along with signal conductors and caps after the amp stage, are the actual parts you are trying to break in. The digital circuits ahead of the output stage will also break in, but that is a fixed rate that you cannot change with load variation. Some people think any music signal will achieve break-in, while others think higher current speeds it up, while others think break-in is a delusion. ymmv
As for the volume level, turning up the Zodiac volume control also causes more current output from the DAC, as long as it doesn't cause the DAC or the input to clip. I doubt that the DAC would clip, but it is possible to clip a consumer input stage with professional level voltage. So it's a good idea to listen to the break in setup for a moment to make sure it's not clipping before letting it simmer for hours. If your DAC is connected directly to the amp, it would be too loud to listen with the Zodiac turned all the way up, so nevermind about maxing the volume control. Just set it to loud but not clipping level with a modern pop music track, then switch to frybaby and shut off the amp. Remember 2/3 of opinions say volume level doesn't matter, so feel free to ignore this, or better yet follow your intuition.
The phono preamp inputs will most likely have 47kOhms (for MM) and 100 Ohm (for MC) input impedance, as these are the most standard settings for carts. 100 Ohms is too low for the DAC. 47k is safe, but not much different from the DNA in terms of current draw in the DAC. Your DNA 1.0 amp's input impedance is 100kOhms. Long ago 47k was the industry standard for RCA input (they used to call RCA a "phono plug") but now many RCA inputs use the 10k standard. 47k and 100k are both on the high side, which is good for normal use because it makes easy work for wimpy sources like old fashioned (good sounding) simple circuit tube preamps, but not hard enough for strong workout needed for fast break in, imo.
As you say, it already sounds good enough to listen, so speeding it up doesn't matter anymore. Just listen and enjoy. Be aware that SQ might dip down again as break in continues. Just ignore it. Listen to the music, ignore the sound. :thumb:
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Thanks, Rich :thumb:
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If you really want I can break it in for you. :thumb:
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If you really want I can break it in for you. :thumb:
Werd, that is an extremely kind offer. My only question is .... would I ever get it back from you?? :lol:
About 150 hours so far. Still some harshness on vocals, strings, horns. That minor harshness is pretty consistent, though, with the SB 2 dac sound. I think new, shielded cables will do the trick.
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Nick make no changes until you have 500 hours on DAC.The new chips require more time to settle as well as the power supply.
Do you use a computer or transport ? You may be quite surprised using a quality transport in lieu of computer.
CEC, PS Audio, Parasound and Woo Audio transports re recommended over any computer we ever tried in direct comparison.
You also may consider a PIAudio Digi-Buss for well digital. Very affective at removing all the nasty high frequency noise.
Footers s well can make the top sound hard. Sty away from brass cones. Try Herbie's first then compare to other soft footers.
HAVE FUN !!
charles
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If you really want I can break it in for you. :thumb:
Werd, that is an extremely kind offer. My only question is .... would I ever get it back from you?? :lol:
Would the answer have something to do with farm animals and aviation? :rofl:
(http://rs942.pbsrc.com/albums/ad268/SeanUpshaw/WhenPigsFly.jpg~c200)
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Nick make no changes until you have 500 hours on DAC.The new chips require more time to settle as well as the power supply.
Do you use a computer or transport ? You may be quite surprised using a quality transport in lieu of computer.
CEC, PS Audio, Parasound and Woo Audio transports re recommended over any computer we ever tried in direct comparison.
You also may consider a PIAudio Digi-Buss for well digital. Very affective at removing all the nasty high frequency noise.
Footers s well can make the top sound hard. Sty away from brass cones. Try Herbie's first then compare to other soft footers.
HAVE FUN !!
charles
Charles,
I'm plugging away at putting on the hours. I won't do anything definitive until I reach 500. I have had my music on my pc and haven't used a player in a long time. Don't even own a player. I have followed the Digibuss postings and know Dave's equipment is well regarded. As I do have a budget, it would be the cables before the Digibuss. And then there's Pete's digital pc to consider as well. Interesting about the footers. The Antelope dac has metal feet on it..maybe 1 1/2 " diameter and it's sitting on a glass shelf. I would definitely get advice from Steve? at Herbie's.
I am hoping one of the members has an RCA digital cable for me to try at some point. That would give me an idea what impact a quality digital cable would make.
Nick
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If you really want I can break it in for you. :thumb:
Werd, that is an extremely kind offer. My only question is .... would I ever get it back from you?? :lol:
Would the answer have something to do with farm animals and aviation? :rofl:
(http://rs942.pbsrc.com/albums/ad268/SeanUpshaw/WhenPigsFly.jpg~c200)
Ummm...yes it would :rofl:
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Nick I will tell you that metal footers on glass can be troublesome in getting all you can.
One would want to decouple the DAC from the shelf, especially glass. IMO footers will give you a big bang as glass is a material that looks great but does not work well for resonance control.
Experiment by just putting three tennis balls under the DAC nd off the glass. This will show you the benefit. Then go footer wild and try everything.
The most effective footer for a glass shelf is either Herbie's or yes tennis balls go figure.
You are going to be very surprised as to the result. Have fun trying.
charles
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Nick I will tell you that metal footers on glass can be troublesome in getting all you can.
One would want to decouple the DAC from the shelf, especially glass. IMO footers will give you a big bang as glass is a material that looks great but does not work well for resonance control.
Experiment by just putting three tennis balls under the DAC nd off the glass. This will show you the benefit. Then go footer wild and try everything.
The most effective footer for a glass shelf is either Herbie's or yes tennis balls go figure.
You are going to be very surprised as to the result. Have fun trying.
charles
Charles,
Thanks for the suggestions. I will try some things this weekend when I'm back from my trip
Nick
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I have 300 hours on it so far and I borrowed some digital cables from a Las Vegas Audio Club member. I am using the MIT Plus digital that is adjustable. I haven't found any info yet on how to do the adjustments. The sound is getting very, very good. The MIT has lowered the noise floor and the increase in resolution is quite a treat. I have some old Doris Day, Bing Crosby etc stuff and it truly is lots of fun to find out how much more information is on those discs. It would be very interesting to hear a truly reference digital cable, but I'm not willing or able to mess with my budget and there are IC's and SC's to buy as well.
Nick
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Nick digital cables are a critical link. IMO more than other applications.
The key is a TRUE 75 Ohm cable. The other is a BNC connector on DAC, transport and cable. USB for audio is not recommended by me. A converter from USB to BNC is the bomb.
Now the manf of cable depends on what you want in sonic signature. Warm ? bright ? Neutral? etc.
Years ago a Belkin copper was the kaboom cable either silver or copper versions. Different character using silver or copper. $18 for that cable. Cannot find one as no one gives them up.
Today more choices, actually too many. You can go nuts picking the one.
So to narrow the chase. consider the character you desire and do your homework to find such. Again a true 75 Ohm cable is a must. Only BNC connector can give you that.
Happy trails.
charles
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When shopping for a digital cable look at your speaker wire. Your speaker wire and digital cable are best served up sonic wise if they are the same. Or at least the same type be litz or any other braid, silver, copper, etc... The two wires that have the most effect are speaker and digital (i guess phono too). Its a good strategy in focusing towards a particular quality or sound you are trying to achieve with wires. It is easier to achieve if the two most important wires are on the same page sonic wise. It works but i have also heard odd ball combinations that are great too. That way becomes more of a hit and miss. That is how i do it in the Ole house of Werd.. :lol:
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When shopping for a digital cable look at your speaker wire. Your speaker wire and digital cable are best served up sonic wise if they are the same. Or at least the same type be litz or any other braid, silver, copper, etc... The two wires that have the most effect are speaker and digital (i guess phono too). Its a good strategy in focusing towards a particular quality or sound you are trying to achieve with wires. It is easier to achieve if the two most important wires are on the same page sonic wise. It works but i have also heard odd ball combinations that are great too. That way becomes more of a hit and miss. That is how i do it in the Ole house of Werd.. :lol:
Oh holy one of the House of Werd. I agree that source ICs and speaker wire make the most difference.
You don't wear a silly hat now do you ? :rofl:
charles
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What I have right now is a lot of detail and a pretty neutral, but still a bit hard top end. The MIT digital has lowered the noise floor. I'd like to retain as much of the detail as I can, but tip things a bit toward a warm midrange. Bass is of little consequence to me due to my listening tastes and room limitations. Everything I've heard about TWL points to a more warm, tubelike and engaging sound. That's very intriguing. I did audition Zen Dave's stuff a couple of years ago and it was excellent, but yikes the price for his high end cables is quite high.
I agree regarding having cables of the same type and for me the same manufacturer as well. Trying to mix and match too many cables would drive me nuts. I just don't enjoy that.
As to the connectors being BNC, I'm still running my SB2 with RCA out and the Antelope does not have BNC. I don't see much point in adding Rca to bnc adapters if the Rca cable is true 75 ohm.
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Oh, by the way , I have. about 425 hours so far and the improvement is in the presentation of more detail. I think the bit of harshness is cable related
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Well, the countdown to 500 hours is over. I passed the mark today and am listening as I write this. Surprisingly, the A/C was good at noon, but then again, it's a sleepy hollow town mid day on Sundays.
This is one very nice dac. Great resolution which makes it fun going through old discs to hear what's really present. The soundstage is wide, high and pretty deep. The texture of violins and guitars is beautiful. Bells and cymbals sound as they should. The decay of instruments is another revelation. Vocals have a hint of sibilance and this is a very huge improvement from the early hours of breakin. My speakers are only two ways, so I can't give you the low down, so to speak, on the bass. But that has never been a priority for me anyway.
I have had contact with a well known cable manufacturer who offers one digital cable, but he also highly recommended a cable from a Canadian company. I plan on auditioning at least those 2 and maybe 1 or 2 others. I have kept using the MIT Plus digital cable. It's good, but I think a bit veiled. Interestingly, the cable manufacturer told me he felt the same about the MIT.
So, that's it. I listened a bit haphazardly at times getting wrapped up in the music so much. I should have had a notebook with me much more, especially when certain songs captured details that were worth noting. But I kept sitting in my chair figuring I'll remember the album and that particular song at a later time. Well....... my memory ain't what it used to be :duh I'll be more prepared when the digital cables arrive :lol:
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What type of digital are you looking for BNC, XLR, or spdif?
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What type of digital are you looking for BNC, XLR, or spdif?
Spdif rca's
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Atlas Mavros 1.5 meter. You will never look back. It keeps all prat intact, better than anything i have heard in rca.
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Atlas Mavros 1.5 meter. You will never look back. It keeps all prat intact, better than anything i have heard in rca.
Thanks for the info. I found the US distributor and am sending an email. I presume you have this? If so, what else did you try before you chose this cable?
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Yes that is the rca i use. I put BNC adaptors on it. I've used many other connects including Kimber, Wywires, Cardas, Straight Wire, Gutwire, XLO and others. You can use component video cables also if you are stuck. The next best rca i have tried that is close is the Atlas Opus, the one lower in their line. I do not think you can get it anymore.
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Nick selecting a digital cable can be never ending. Why ? in my experience digital cables sound drastically different. You can have 10 cables on hand and each will sound different.
Before you decide start with the character desired to cut the chase. Do ya want neutral ? rich ? bright ? [ hell no ]. Then do some reading of reviews to get a idea of the character.
A must have is a 75 ohm cable. Shielded number two. IMO a minimum of two meters as added length eliminates reflections on the cable according to Cardas. He actually recommends 17ft 6 inches. I never tried that however at 2 or 3 meters there was a difference with the same brand no matter what brand. Three BNC if possible as that connector is a true 75 Ohm connector.
Had enough :rofl: :rofl:. Taking your time selecting the right one for YOUR application will be well worth the effort. Happy trails.
charles
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Years ago StereoNut lent me a a bag of several SPDIF cables most of them sounded slightly different from each other (not enough to make a decision) but one was way better than the lot. I ended up buying that cable from Bill. It is an ELCO SPDIF cable. My advice, listen to as many as you can before laying out the $$ if you can.
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The 1.5 meter is the suggested length by Steve Nugent. He says 2 meters is too long (unless he has changed his stance?). Resolution is minimal and only useful in gauging whether the cable is overly dark (like heavily shielded Monster video cables) or more open (like Kimber Illuminations). You can tell by looking at the cable what the resolution will be. You listen for prat in digital cabling. How it handles the beats (especially where the instruments are layered) you want the beats to remain intact while layered. Most rca's are pretty lousy at this and they seem to lose timing. The music comes off sounding 4/4 timing with less emphasis on the beats. They are also less laid back. You want the reverse, even at 4/4 timing you want things to sound more emphasis on off beat snare hits and bass drum hits all while sounding more laid back. That is what i have come to learn about digital cables. Good instrumental jazz like Bill Frisell is great at hearing digital cabling or any symphony imo :thumb:
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Interesting that Cardas recommends long length and Nugent 1.5 mtrs.
No matter Werd makes some good points. If it were me I would change the connectors on any DAC or CDP to BNC first. But thats me.
Then a true 75 Ohm cable would show its merits. A huge difference IMO. If there is an internal pulse generator from RCA input to board the a true 75 Ohm cable may not matter as the Pulse Gen. is designed to present a 75 Ohm load.
The Promithius DAC I own has that feature. I have used standard IC with zero issue.
charles
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Well it was Nugent that first made it known. It is his baby, but in all likely-hood 1.5 meter is the most reasonable length. There are probably longer lengths (a multiple of 1.5) that maybe better but unrealistic cost wise. He also made mention that BNC adaptors are the way to go, opposed to fitting a coax with a BNC. Now that last part is from memory and maybe completely incorrect. But i think he said that. It makes sense fitting an adaptor since RCA are easier to sell than a committed BNC.
Its imho, all your prat tweaks are bound up in source cabling. Mostly the spdif or 110 ohm xlr position. Speaker cabling does about as much for Prat as 75 ohm rca does for Resolution. IF you want more resolution concentrate on the speaker cabling.
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What I have right now is a lot of detail and a pretty neutral, but still a bit hard top end. The MIT digital has lowered the noise floor. I'd like to retain as much of the detail as I can, but tip things a bit toward a warm midrange. Bass is of little consequence to me due to my listening tastes and room limitations. Everything I've heard about TWL points to a more warm, tubelike and engaging sound. That's very intriguing. I did audition Zen Dave's stuff a couple of years ago and it was excellent, but yikes the price for his high end cables is quite high.
I agree regarding having cables of the same type and for me the same manufacturer as well. Trying to mix and match too many cables would drive me nuts. I just don't enjoy that.
As to the connectors being BNC, I'm still running my SB2 with RCA out and the Antelope does not have BNC. I don't see much point in adding Rca to bnc adapters if the Rca cable is true 75 ohm.
The BNC adaptors are for BNC inputs using rca 75 ohm digital cables only. Forget about BNC you do not have it. Unless you have BNC out on your streamer or player into the dac then use adaptors on the streamer side and rca on your dac side.
Everything you have said so far is encouraging. The detail and even the hard high end. I like that since it is completely repairable and tells me your dac etches out detail. Which is where you want to start. Since it is a lot easier to go from that to warmer than warmer to detail. You can probably repair that hard top end with power cabling. 75 or 110 ohm won't do much I have found. You are going to gravitate towards darker 75 ohm cabling. That will probably not work, you will just end up with a hard top treble that sounds darker..lol.
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Well, I thought I had posted my response within the last day or two, but apparently I didn't hit save. Thanks for your comments and recommendations. I'll probably order one cable today from MG Audio and live with it for a while before going on to another cable and possibly more.
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Looks good :thumb:
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Well it appears not all designers think 75 Ohms is the right way to go. I may have to rethink my previous stance.
Mad Scientist uses a 37 Ohm cable not 75 Ohm. His design philosophy is based on reflections and states that at 37 Ohms the resistance of such cures the reflections. Hmmm.
Very interesting approach. Werd on the speaker cable thing agree 100%. The biggest change for the good has been with speaker cables. However digital cable must be correct first to fully appreciate the speaker cable change.
In my experience there is no best digital cable. Only best in ones application. Finding the right one is the tough part. Not listening but gathering up a bunch to evaluate. However well worth the effort.
charles
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Well it appears not all designers think 75 Ohms is the right way to go. I may have to rethink my previous stance.
Mad Scientist uses a 37 Ohm cable not 75 Ohm. His design philosophy is based on reflections and states that at 37 Ohms the resistance of such cures the reflections. Hmmm.
Very interesting approach. Werd on the speaker cable thing agree 100%. The biggest change for the good has been with speaker cables. However digital cable must be correct first to fully appreciate the speaker cable change.
In my experience there is no best digital cable. Only best in ones application. Finding the right one is the tough part. Not listening but gathering up a bunch to evaluate. However well worth the effort.
charles
Well, 37 ohms is interesting. I'm not a fan of long cables, reflections and all. Never tried different lengths though. I believe dartZeel uses a 50 ohm standard, but then again, I don't know all that much about technical issues
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Well, after I passed 500 hours, I haven't been keeping track of the break in hours any longer. But I'm probably at 650 - 700 by now and this Antelope dac continues to improve .... and amaze. More refined, more space around voices and instruments and less sibilance. I had read a few reviews of the Gold and one guy said he noticed improvement still at 1400 hours and I thought he was crazy. But he may be quite correct. Things sound so good now I really don't need to tinker all that much. But what would be the fun of that?? Besides, it is my goal to complete my system to reference quality (within reason $$).
Werd, I heard back from the Atlas dealer and the Mavros goes for $484 for one meter. That's a bit pricey for me and I can get a one meter from Audio Sensibilty in Canada for $180 shipped. So I'll be trying that and The Ed Smith digital from MG Audio. Haven't ordered anything yet with the holidays and the hectic shipping pace.
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I had read a few reviews of the Gold and one guy said he noticed improvement still at 1400 hours and I thought he was crazy. But he may be quite correct.
Does not surprise me. Those Teflon caps are a bitch to break in.
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Well, after I passed 500 hours, I haven't been keeping track of the break in hours any longer. But I'm probably at 650 - 700 by now and this Antelope dac continues to improve .... and amaze. More refined, more space around voices and instruments and less sibilance. I had read a few reviews of the Gold and one guy said he noticed improvement still at 1400 hours and I thought he was crazy. But he may be quite correct. Things sound so good now I really don't need to tinker all that much. But what would be the fun of that?? Besides, it is my goal to complete my system to reference quality (within reason $$).
Werd, I heard back from the Atlas dealer and the Mavros goes for $484 for one meter. That's a bit pricey for me and I can get a one meter from Audio Sensibilty in Canada for $180 shipped. So I'll be trying that and The Ed Smith digital from MG Audio. Haven't ordered anything yet with the holidays and the hectic shipping pace.
Hey Nick, let me know if you want to temporary trade the Ed smith for the Atlas when you are done. We can swap for awhile. No time lines or hurries just something to think about.
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Hey Werd,
I'd be happy to do that. Might be a little tricky with the 30 day audition
limit, but I'm sure we can work it out. That's part of what makes this hobby fun !
I'll keep you posted on what cable arrives at what time
Thanks!!
Nick
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I live up in Canada. It is still doable but something to think about for shipping and timelines. :thumb:
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I just tried sending a money order to Audio Sensibilty in Canada via UPS and it's a no-go due to UPS rules re sending cash or equivalents. Nothing is simple any more. Once I get the Ed Smith cable, I'll ask Greg if I can send it to you and allow extra time on the audition. I will try and make this work as exchanging gear is lots of fun and a part of this hobby
:thumb:
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Don't forget about customs tax also, anything coming into the US gets zapped, ~10% iirc?
NAFTA SCHMAFTA free trade bullshit
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One get around it by using USPS/Canada Post with no insured value. You can still get the tracking number. If you give it to Fed Ex or UPS expect an anal ripping at your door. :rofl:
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Rich, I was wondering about that also, but Audio Sensabilty just wants $175 US $$ which is a great deal with the US Canada exchange rate right now
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I just tried sending a money order to Audio Sensibilty in Canada via UPS and it's a no-go due to UPS rules re sending cash or equivalents. Nothing is simple any more. Once I get the Ed Smith cable, I'll ask Greg if I can send it to you and allow extra time on the audition. I will try and make this work as exchanging gear is lots of fun and a part of this hobby
:thumb:
That comes from Canada... interesting. What about paypal or CC?
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One get around it by using USPS/Canada Post with no insured value. You can still get the tracking number. If you give it to Fed Ex or UPS expect an anal ripping at your door. :rofl:
I really, really hate dealing with USPS and those guys just "delivered/misplaced" a package from my sister in law with gift cards in it. But I think I'll use them AFTER the holiday rush. I never knew it could be so hard trying to give somebody some money 😟
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http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649242312-audio-sensibility-statement-se-silver-spdif-bncbnc-digital-interconnect-cable-15-m/
Is this the cable here?
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I just tried sending a money order to Audio Sensibilty in Canada via UPS and it's a no-go due to UPS rules re sending cash or equivalents. Nothing is simple any more. Once I get the Ed Smith cable, I'll ask Greg if I can send it to you and allow extra time on the audition. I will try and make this work as exchanging gear is lots of fun and a part of this hobby
:thumb:
I was trying to avoid PayPal as I'd have to move money into it from one of our accounts. I try to keep my audio cash "slush fund" private from my wife, although she is very understanding about my hobby......this is a hobby, right??
That comes from Canada... interesting. What about paypal or CC?
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http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649242312-audio-sensibility-statement-se-silver-spdif-bncbnc-digital-interconnect-cable-15-m/
Is this the cable here?
Why.....yes it is! I would be ordering the 1 meter. I am interested primarily because it is highly recommended by Greg at MG Audio and I have a hunch it will be very, very good. He commented on my MIT loaner and he is spot on with his description/analysis
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http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649242312-audio-sensibility-statement-se-silver-spdif-bncbnc-digital-interconnect-cable-15-m/
Is this the cable here?
Why.....yes it is! I would be ordering the 1 meter. I am interested primarily because it is highly recommended by Greg at MG Audio and I have a hunch it will be very, very good. He commented on my MIT loaner and he is spot on with his description/analysis
This is advertised in 1.5 mtr. Get it in that length if you can. Ask for the RCA over too.
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You can send a Paypal from your credit card, just change the funding source. You don't have to have cash in paypal to send money.
Sending small items by post should be able to avoid doodie fees. Good idea!
I have a Black Cat Veloce SPDIF cable you can try for a short audition Nick. RCA/BNC. Probably not as good as the cables you're trying, but not too bad.
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http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649242312-audio-sensibility-statement-se-silver-spdif-bncbnc-digital-interconnect-cable-15-m/
Is this the cable here?
Why.....yes it is! I would be ordering the 1 meter. I am interested primarily because it is highly recommended by Greg at MG Audio and I have a hunch it will be very, very good. He commented on my MIT loaner and he is spot on with his description/analysis
This is advertised in 1.5 mtr. Get it in that length if you can. Ask for the RCA over too.
Yes, Steve at AS wants it to be 1.5 m so I'd be able to return it and it'll be rca's on both ends
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You can send a Paypal from your credit card, just change the funding source. You don't have to have cash in paypal to send money.
Sending small items by post should be able to avoid doodie fees. Good idea!
I have a Black Cat Veloce SPDIF cable you can try for a short audition Nick. RCA/BNC. Probably not as good as the cables you're trying, but not too bad.
Thanks for the info, Rich. Wasn't aware of that. I hear the Black Cat is pretty good, but I need rca's on both ends and don't have an adapter
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I have adapters on both ends, so BNC or RCA OK.
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I have adapters on both ends, so BNC or RCA OK.
RCA on both ends. PM sent
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http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649242312-audio-sensibility-statement-se-silver-spdif-bncbnc-digital-interconnect-cable-15-m/
Is this the cable here?
Why.....yes it is! I would be ordering the 1 meter. I am interested primarily because it is highly recommended by Greg at MG Audio and I have a hunch it will be very, very good. He commented on my MIT loaner and he is spot on with his description/analysis
This is advertised in 1.5 mtr. Get it in that length if you can. Ask for the RCA over too.
Yes, Steve at AS wants it to be 1.5 m so I'd be able to return it and it'll be rca's on both ends
Have you figured out how you are going to handle this?
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Werd, you are wanting to try both the Ed Smith and the Audio Sensibilty cables?? Are you on the east or west side of Canada?
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Werd, you are wanting to try both the Ed Smith and the Audio Sensibilty cables?? Are you on the east or west side of Canada?
Western Canada
Saskatoon Sk
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Werd, you are wanting to try both the Ed Smith and the Audio Sensibilty cables?? Are you on the east or west side of Canada?
Western Canada
Saskatoon Sk
Ok I'll keep ya posted
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Awesome.
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Nick what are you using right now? You want me to send you the Atlas right now?
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Nick what are you using right now? You want me to send you the Atlas right now?
Well, tomorrow I'm mailing the $$ for the Audio Sensabilty cable in Toronto and then that needs to break in. Let me get it and break it in a little, otherwise I'll tie up your cable too long. Am sending you a PM with my address and phone.
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Werd you are in Bigfoot territory.
charles
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Well, I received the Audio Sensabilty digital cable yesterday and it is outstanding, just as MG Audio said it would be. In very technical terms, I would describe this cable as "spooky good" ha ha 😀 😀It resolves much better than the MIT digital plus that a Las Vegas Audio Club member kindly lent me. More detail does not mean etched, irritating, nasty etc. This cable presents this extra detail in a relaxed, wondrous way. As I listen, I am so pleasantly surprised that there is so much more info on these discs than I thought. This digital cable makes everything sound so less digital. The cable is silver plated copper and I'm presuming the shielding is excellent in very much reducing the noise and allowing the detail to be presented.
I have already sent a complimeary email to Steve Huang at AS and I only had 12 hours on the cable. Another great thing about this cable is that it's priced in Canadian dollars and the exchange rate is great. I got a meter for less than $200. Werd, you are going to love this cable. I'm looking forward to listening to your Atlas Mavros, so pls send it when you get a chance!
I've asked Steve a few questions about his cables and I'll report back when I get his response. Take a look at www.audiosensability.com I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Ok i will get it out this week :thumb:. Now i want to hear yours now for sure.
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Werd you are in Bigfoot territory.
charles
Two provinces over actually 8)
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The Audio Sensibilty digital cable is broken in. I've been in this hobby for over 25 years and this is the best sound/most fun I've had listening ... And yes, I've had a few toddies tonight.😀 I'm waiting on Werd's cable, but I'm keeping this one for sure. In the pursuit of great music, I'm offering the AS cable to any of my AN friends for a listen. Just PM if you are interested
Nick
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Sending it today :thumb:
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The Audio Sensibilty digital cable is broken in. I've been in this hobby for over 25 years and this is the best sound/most fun I've had listening ... And yes, I've had a few toddies tonight.😀 I'm waiting on Werd's cable, but I'm keeping this one for sure. In the pursuit of great music, I'm offering the AS cable to any of my AN friends for a listen. Just PM if you are interested
Nick
ENJOYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!! have a drink for me
charles
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The Audio Sensibilty digital cable is broken in. I've been in this hobby for over 25 years and this is the best sound/most fun I've had listening ... And yes, I've had a few toddies tonight.😀 I'm waiting on Werd's cable, but I'm keeping this one for sure. In the pursuit of great music, I'm offering the AS cable to any of my AN friends for a listen. Just PM if you are interested
Nick
ENJOYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!! have a drink for me
charles
Thanks, Charles. I'll do that 😀 As this is such an excellent cable, it'll be so much easier to dial in the Interrconnect and speaker cables.
Who knew it would only take take 25-30 years to get this far. And it all started with me buying a Tandberg cassette deck in the late 70s...
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You get that cable yet...:thumb: ?
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Not yet. I didn't get your tracking number. What does it show on your end?
Nicki
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You should get it by the end of the week. I have been looking for it., haven't put to much effort I can look harder though.
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The Atlas Mavros cable arrived, but I've been out of town. Just got back last night and put a few hours on it as the system has been turned off. Have not been able to listen for more than 15 or 20 minutes so far. It will be interesting as I believe Werd has a system superior to mine and probably has more critical listening skills as well.
Am hoping to have some private time with the rig soon so I can crank it up and will be coaxing my wife to run some errands etc 😀
Nick
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The Atlas Mavros cable arrived, but I've been out of town. Just got back last night and put a few hours on it as the system has been turned off. Have not been able to listen for more than 15 or 20 minutes so far. It will be interesting as I believe Werd has a system superior to mine and probably has more critical listening skills as well.
Am hoping to have some private time with the rig soon so I can crank it up and will be coaxing my wife to run some errands etc 😀
Nick
I only know what I like on my system. My opinions are my own and not a science but just a hobbyist view of audio. But I do listen to my gear so that helps :thumb:
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The Atlas Mavros cable arrived, but I've been out of town. Just got back last night and put a few hours on it as the system has been turned off. Have not been able to listen for more than 15 or 20 minutes so far. It will be interesting as I believe Werd has a system superior to mine and probably has more critical listening skills as well.
Am hoping to have some private time with the rig soon so I can crank it up and will be coaxing my wife to run some errands etc 😀
Nick
I only know what I like on my system. My opinions are my own and not a science but just a hobbyist view of audio. But I do listen to my gear so that helps :thumb:
Sometimes it's nice and even useful to understand the science, but at the end of the day its your system so all that really matters is your opinion. Whatever makes you happy is right for you... and likewise for everyone else. IMO that is the only absolute in this hobby.
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Yes, all that really matters is how it sounds in my system. I do wish I had much more exposure to live music over the years and the opportunity to listen to much more equipment in my home. My initial impression of the Mavros is that it has a more natural top end. Cymbals and triangles sound more realistic with better decay. Violins are very sweet sounding. I'll be able to do lots of listening tomorrow
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A good day listening yesterday. Werd has good taste in cables. At this point, it would help to make these decisions with the benefit of a power conditioner, so I've just sent an email to Dave at PI
Nick
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A good day listening yesterday. Werd has good taste in cables. At this point, it would help to make these decisions with the benefit of a power conditioner, so I've just sent an email to Dave at PI
Nick
FYI, Dave just left on a week long vacation trip, so if he does not get back to you right away, that's why.
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=5894.0
Also keep in mind that Dave's units take quit a while to fully break i (in the area of 400 hours). So even if you do get one right away it will be quite some time before it is putting its best foot forward.
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A good day listening yesterday. Werd has good taste in cables. At this point, it would help to make these decisions with the benefit of a power conditioner, so I've just sent an email to Dave at PI
Nick
FYI, Dave just left on a week long vacation trip, so if he does not get back to you right away, that's why.
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=5894.0
Also keep in mind that Dave's units take quit a while to fully break i (in the area of 400 hours). So even if you do get one right away it will be quite some time before it is putting its best foot forward.
Thanks for the heads up. I wasn't aware of such a long break in 😳
Nick
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A good day listening yesterday. Werd has good taste in cables. At this point, it would help to make these decisions with the benefit of a power conditioner, so I've just sent an email to Dave at PI
Nick
I do :D. That cable has just the right sparkle with out sounding to for ward or lean for SPDIF. :thumb:. Its my favorite.
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A good day listening yesterday. Werd has good taste in cables. At this point, it would help to make these decisions with the benefit of a power conditioner, so I've just sent an email to Dave at PI
Nick
I do :D. That cable has just the right sparkle with out sounding to for ward or lean for SPDIF. :thumb:. Its my favorite.
Yes, it sparkles and in such a natural, engaging way. I am hearing more information, especially in the lower regions. I don't know if it's because the Mavros has better shielding or it's the combination of good materials and how they're configured. The Audio Sensibility Statement cable is also quite good. What a nice problem to have.
I will qualify the above by saying I was out of town for 10 days and haven't heard my AS cable for nearly 3 weeks. The main problem with the Mavros is it costs nearly three times as much as the AS.
Werd, I'll be in touch by this weekend.
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Glad you are enjoying it. :thumb: No rush to get it back. Take your time with it.
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Werd,
Could you describe the rest of your cables? What you have tried etc
Nick
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I just wrote a lengthy post and I lost it on this shit Samsung tablet.
I will do it again later on my laptop
:duh
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As things are a bit slow on AN right now, I wanted to provide an update on my system.
1) I bought an Auralic Aries Mini and also an external linear power supply. The ps is from Mojo Audio
2) I am basically done with any more cable auditions. I have a friend, Gary, in the LVAS (Las Vegas Audio Society) Gary is a musician and master tweaker. He also builds great sounding power cords, digital cables and IC's. He uses unusual gauge wires.
The detail is excellent. The midrange and bass are much improved. There is warmth now, not the lean and etched sound that I've become so accustomed to over the years. Yet it is not euphonic. It's been a very, very slow process to get to this point. The cabling brings out the best from the Antelope dac and McCormack amp. Gary was kind enough to bring all his cables to me and that clinched it.
I'm trying Bliss as a tagger right now. The only thing left then is to finish my vinyl upgrade. When I have more $$ I'll be looking at phono stages and cartridges.
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Cool Nick. You found synergy, good. ENJOY !!!!!!!!!!
charles