AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Bipolar System Disorders => Topic started by: rollo on May 18, 2011, 10:15:27 AM
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We all have our personal likes about what we are trying to accomplish sonics wise. However one size may not fit all. Say your in a mood for a sexy sax in a dark room. Or a cerebral piece in a lively room.
Is it our goal then to have a neutral system or a colored system. I say have both. For me a SET and say Tannoys single driver give me that warm and cozy feeling for small ensembles, acoustic Guitar, acoustic Blues violin solos and vocals.
For Orchestral, electric Blues, Pop and rock different speakers like the Pipedreams give me what I require for those genres. SO two systems or two different speakers. What do you think ???
charles
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Of course I need two systems. I have two ears, don't I? :roll:
I know, my wife didn't buy it either. :(
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We all have our personal likes about what we are trying to accomplish sonics wise. However one size may not fit all. Say your in a mood for a sexy sax in a dark room. Or a cerebral piece in a lively room.
Is it our goal then to have a neutral system or a colored system. I say have both. For me a SET and say Tannoys single driver give me that warm and cozy feeling for small ensembles, acoustic Guitar, acoustic Blues violin solos and vocals.
For Orchestral, electric Blues, Pop and rock different speakers like the Pipedreams give me what I require for those genres. SO two systems or two different speakers. What do you think ???
charles
Seriously, this is just another set of trade-offs. Since most of us only have a limited amount of resources to devote to this hobby (in which I would include time and space as well as money) I think the bigget question would be what would you have to give up in your main system in order to get a second one and in light of that is it worth it to you. Even if you don't need to sell off any of your present equipment to pay for a second system you would still be diverting funds that could have been used to do upgrades to your primary equipment (not to mention what you would have to buy for your wife in order to get her to agree to let you have yet another room for audio equipment :lol:) So the real question is would you be happy with two lesser quality systems that are optimized for particular types of music or one higher quality system that is more general in nature. No real right or wrong answer here, just personal preference.
Decisions, decisions, decisions......... :duh
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No.
The "main" rig is in the audio mancave.
The AV rig (5.1) is in the family room.
The second audio system is in the living room (made up of leftovers).
And I'm 2/3rds the way to assembling a 4th "spare parts" audio system (in case my son who's grown and out on his own ever wants to get into audio).
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NEVER!
You really need THREE systems to be AudioLooney!!! :rofl:
1. Your Main System
2. Your Secondary System
3. Your garage system (when you're "kicked-out" or voted out of the first two). Note - the garage must have a secondary refrigerator with libations in it at all times. :beer:
Take it from my experiences,
Pete
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Multiple systems for convenience and listening everywhere, yes.
Multiple systems for each color of the tonal rainbow no. The mood is in the music. Transparency serves the music. Dumb it down a little to battle harshness, sure, but sweeten no more than necessary lest you become addicted to the sound of the machine.
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If I was single ( maybe I'll be that way soon if this hobby continues at it's present pace), I could get by with one system in my house... since I wouldn't need to share TV in the same room.
In reality with family of 5, I need:
1) a mancave system for complete isolation late at night- most of my resources are here
2) HT setup for family in basement next door to the mancave
3) family room system right off the kitchen to have tunes for most computer work and kitchen duties, there is battle from the family to turn it down to hear the computer games, do homework, and also the TV, I usually lose this battle.
I need to rig up a system for top floor listening ( bedrooms and laundry room, sitting room all could use some music ) I have most of the system in storage, just need some larger bookshelf type speakers to fill it out.
Rob S.
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1) man cave with a system that compliments the kind of music YOU like most
2) 5.1 for the movies
3) outside system (or at least outside speakers for music by the pool)
4) background music, for that cozy room where company chats and sips wine before/after dinner
5) something portable
6) the car
7) headphones (for when nobody else wants music playing)
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1) man cave with a system that compliments the kind of music YOU like most
2) 5.1 for the movies
3) outside system (or at least outside speakers for music by the pool)
4) background music, for that cozy room where company chats and sips wine before/after dinner
5) something portable
6) the car
7) headphones (for when nobody else wants music playing)
Yes, this is the ideal for space based systems. But if I ever win the lottery (unlikely as I don't play :lol:), I can envision four systems.
1) large dynamic speakers with powerful amps to do large scale (orchestral/choral/opera) music.
2) electrostatics (Quads, most likely) for chamber music
3) horns (probably with set amps)
4) monitors for casual listening
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Jeez, for some people I know one system is more than they deserve. :rofl:
--Jerome
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In small Apt. living...gotta be enuff.
Guess this Q applies only to homeowners/ Whole House dwellers.
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The answer is 42 :thumb:
I won't divulge how many systems I run but let's just say it is north of 5 :duh
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Jeez, for some people I know one system is more than they deserve. :rofl:
--Jerome
And/or more than they would know what to do with. :roll:
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Sorry to say, but the older I get, the less I need different systems for different moods or types of music (settling into old fart ways). Like Bud Fried told me decades ago (he was already an old fart), "Why would you want to further hype/distort rock music that's already hyped/distorted?"
But excellent point about not having your own quality space, and the value in having a high fidelity headphone based system. I'm constantly amazed at the money and effort folks put into assembling really nice systems that are destined for lackluster spaces.
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In small Apt. living...gotta be enuff.
Guess this Q applies only to homeowners/ Whole House dwellers.
Yes and no.. as someone who lived in apartments with roommates, girlfriends, alone, and in various sizes of places, I found 1 system to be adequate for an apartment... and it was always in 'my' space. So, in a shared place, my system was in my room... If I lived alone or with people I could (sort of) trust, in my den, where I could sit in a comfy chair. However, I always had a car and portable system during these times too... (I lived in the south, with limited public transport where you can drive a car for 1,k a year.)
So, 3 is the minimum if you have a car, 2 if you take the train or bike-commute. So, that's 'enough' to enjoy music. However, what's enough to explore all the different kinds of sound you want? You can certainly setup quasi-multiple systems in one place... so, experimenting with new speakers, amps, etc... you can have 2 system's worth of gear in one place easily.
I got tired of the cramped spaces and limitations of rooms so I changed jobs and moved somewhere I could buy a house where I could have multiple systems. It's fun to build them. It was a good choice. I don't have the nice city/community feel I did in Boston, DC, or other cities I've lived.. but that's the only thing I miss... there is so much more that I'm happy to miss with this choice...
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For me one room several options in feeling of the room. I like different venues when listening to live music. For Jazz the Bluenote had a sense of lush and full with softer bass. Where as other venues are bright and dynamic as heck.
I think you get the picture different rooms create different tone. So is two rooms and two systems ? Impractical for most but an option. That is what got me to thinking two or three different types of speakers and amp combos. The front end would be the main stay. Either TT or CDP.
For that full rich sound Rockport Mira's, Vandersteen 5As, vintage Snell, Tannoy, Klipsch and for a less colored tone say Magico, Theil, Wilson or Pipedreams.
For now I use different tube sets to accomplish my preference for a particular venue. No trade offs just different. A crowded small venue as opposed to larger less occupied venue will always sound different.
Now some say that a neutral system can transport one to the venues of the recording. However neutral to me is unrealistic. I was not at the recording session so I have no clue as to what it really sounded like before the mixer or mikes.
Chew on this a while.
charles
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Initially I thought one system would be enough but just like The Cure sings It's never enough. ;)
For me these are the systems I currently have.
1) HT set-up
2) 2.1 Channel music set-up
3) Headphone set-up for privacy. (I get to listen to Huey Lewis in private without anyone poking fun at me.)
4) Basement set-up.
5) Garage set-up. This music only system consists of old cheap gear. Most of the time I don't even consider it a system. I set it up so I'll have some music playing when I'm doing various chores.
The idea in previous threads about having different systems for different kinds of music or types of listening environments is cool but very hard for me to do. For me I like having different systems to try different kinds of audio gear. My basement set-up was initially supposed to be strictly budget (<$400 per component) with the exception of one of my amps but then it became the rig where I would enjoy music from different kinds of audio gear. The gear would be something that interested me or I was curious about after doing some reading. My basement set-up now has a tube DAC and Baldwin tube amp now along with a bunch of SS gear I already had. I was also curious about single driver full range speakers and ended up with a pair of GLOW Audio Voice One speakers in that system now in addition to the 2 pairs of KEF speakers I already had in there before. It is getting quite messy in my basement now.
I keep the other systems pretty much the same though. Maybe a tweak or cable gets added but no major equipment swaps.
Thanks
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I'm currently in the midst of this dilemma. I'm looking to make some major upgrades to my main rig...which is in the living room....so I guess I should say it's the family's rig ;) We listen to a ton of music....pretty much daily and it's a strictly 2 channel vinyl spread....so at least it's only a few components :roll: I'm hoping to use the bulk of my current set-up to build an experimenting/testing rig upstairs in the office. I have the vision and the research is done....just have to convince my wife that spending the cash is the RIGHT thing to do. Luckily she fully supports my vinyl lifestyle.....to a point :thumb:
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Despite my earlier posted, unlikely ever to be realized fantasies, what I find to be essential is 1) a main tubed system that does all music at least decently, 2) a headphone system for private listening, and 3) a SS powered monitor based system I can leave on for as long as I like for streamed background listening. (I actually have two of the last, one in the living room and one in the office/den - both Audioengine based).
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Went down that road last year. Aside from the main rig I managed the following
Bought a little 30W T amp and paired it with a USB DAC from HifimeDIY.com and a pair of AR50 speakers being fed from my computer. A nice little system for the desktop.
Before that my daughter blew up my 30 (40?) year old NAD3155 integrated so I picked up a melody tube integrated and paired it with another HigimeDIY DAC and a pair of Clemons bookshelves fed by my Android phone. This in the back room of the house, but also feeding my outdoor speakers on the deck.
Then there's the inexpensive home theater system in the livingroom.
Each system has its purpose and fits the need nicely.
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Well, the wife quashed my tube dreams. Had my eye on the Eastern Electric M520 and a pair of Decware DM945s or Audio Note AX Twos. So, essentially a $2,500 investment. Since we just had our second child she had to talk some sense into me....ha! I ended up with an $800 budget for the second system. Found a pair of Quad 11Ls and an Audio Analogue Primo Settanta used online both for a mighty good price. That's what I love about this hobby....spending money on a fancy rig is fun but finding a value based set-up for short money is even more fun :)
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For me music isn't system dependent on type of gear but how loud I play it. So I would use another system that focuses more on low volume. A minimalist full range driver maybe. Get like a 3 watt amp with no preamp source direct to amp. Got one volume and then find speaks that match to the volume I want through speaker impedance.
I know nothing about this kind of gear so I would end up here on this board asking questions trying to figure it out.
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one system isn't enough cuz i am not always in one room. but every system must be great on all types of music. ;)
doug s.
Hey Dougster good to see you here again.
charles
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Wow, this thread has been kicking around over the years and I suspect that how we would respond has changed as well.
For me, I have three listening 'mindsets':
1) critical listening - my big rig and the one I'm most invested in. We all have at least one of these or we wouldn't be here.
2) multiple other systems so that I can listen to music wherever I am - bedroom, kitchen, outside porch, dining room... this is more about background music while doing something else but it needs to be reasonably good. My various squeezebox devices still serve me well in this capacity.
3) personal immersion via headphones - while I've always had at least one set of nice headphones, I find myself with headphones or iems on far more of late. Work, bathtub, traveling, exercising, etc. Tech these days makes this not only very good but also quite affordable.
So yes, one critical listening system is enough, but no, one place to listen to music is never enough. In fact, I want every place I spend extended time to have music available.
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I'm not sure I would need multiple systems. However I have considered purchasing a planar speaker system (Maggie) to compare/contract with my dynamic speaker system. I think they are selling an inexpensive version that is getting good reviews and doesn't take over the entire room.
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Simple. You need 4. One. for your main space. Two. for your man cave. Three. A head amp and several pair of headphones.
And Four. An outside portable system.
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My sub systems are all hand me downs from previous upgrades to my main A system.
My attic train room has all my recently replaced main music room equipment and cables. So now this is the B system.
My garage system has all the left overs from previous upgrades. Now the C system.
My Dads garage gets anything left over from all the previous. And its better than most garage music systems. :D
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Seems like 'system' can be anything.. iphone and the stock buds are technically a system... and I use that when biking. I'm looking at wind-stopping solutions for that system now.
I think the spirit of the post was sort of a 'how obsessed are you?' kind of thread where we discuss how we have 2 or 3 systems as our tone controls in 1 room; kind of an obsessive hobbyist mindset.
If I'm just bragging about my systems, because I like them:
1- Main rig in basement; hasn't changed much in years... tried a few things but just upgraded what I had in the end.
2- Middle-floor audio; bookshelves, integrated amp, background and fun music.
2a - B-channel's go to deck speakers for seamless entertaining with consistent experience musically. ;)
3- Upstairs bonus room in-wall HT 5.1 setup w/ streaming driven by receiver
4- Master bed and bath luxury system; driven by A/B channels from receiver using SB3. Synchronized music for whole-house experience.
5- Headphone setup 1 - ADL 128+ADL amp w/ my phone
5a - Headphone setup 2 - Sennheiser Momentums
5b - Headphone setup 3 - Bose earbuds, iphone buds, etc. for biking
6- OEM car systems (1 per car)
So are 5+ systems 'enough'? I think so. ;)
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Five eh !. It is a wonderful thing.
charles
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I can see systems for different rooms so one can be entertained. :)
I have one main system with switches (always in parallel), so I can alter the sound when needed. Since the recording encompasses half the total live venue to playback path, one sometimes needs to compensate for the recording
flaws. I know that is kinda "cheating".
As examples, most of the time I like "neutral" for most classical, jazz etc for the most natural sound.
I sometimes find that oldies but goodies etc are a little thin or full on the bottom, so I switch and presto, filled out or thinned a hair for a more natural sound. I like the flexibility.
In fact, I have switches with multiple positions on the speakers, amps, and a variable control on the preamplifier.
The only downer I find is that it takes a little time for the contacts to "settle in".
Cheers
Positron
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Hey Steve that 's cool. Maybe tone controls should be a consideration by the designers. Luxman still offers them. Mc Intosh as well.
I miss my Fisher 101 integrated for that reason. So the reason for more than one system.
One for CD playback actually and one for Vinyl.
charles
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Im thinking about different speaker systems for different music. For my well recorded classical and Jazz my main speaker system. I am considering building a hi efficiency speaker (PA like) that I can abuse for loud Rock. I don't want to abuse my main speaker system as it never achieves the SPL for rock. 8)
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Im thinking about different speaker systems for different music. For my well recorded classical and Jazz my main speaker system. I am considering building a hi efficiency speaker (PA like) that I can abuse for loud Rock. I don't want to abuse my main speaker system as it never achieves the SPL for rock. 8)
Good Idea. Roll them in baby.
charles
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Hey Steve that 's cool. Maybe tone controls should be a consideration by the designers. Luxman still offers them. Mc Intosh as well.
I miss my Fisher 101 integrated for that reason. So the reason for more than one system.
One for CD playback actually and one for Vinyl.
charles
Thanks Rollo. The way I use "controls" is in parallel, and in the power supply if possible.
For example, in my 11A line preamplifier, I use a control in parallel with the output, to adjust for different amplifier input impedances (Z), which affects the bass.
In the amp, I use the controls in the power supply to adjust for highs and lows. I keep the controls out of the primary part of the signal circuitry. I also have a control, that is not a center tap filament control, for minimizing 60hz hum in the system.
Cheers
Steve
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As you guys know I was having difficulty deciding my preference on speaker/amp configurations. Planars/Arion hybrid amps or Highly efficient [ Rethm]/SET combo.
It dawned on me to have both. Slide in one pair slide out the other. For my room size outboard OB subs are a tough fit. The HE speaker has a built in sub to 18Hz. I like bass to 20HZ so outboard OB subs are a must for me if planars are used. The planars I choose go down to 20HZ with no subs. Much easier to integrate in my room.
I listen to jazz mostly, some blues and hardly any rock. Classical full orchestral music though is like rock requiring some balls from your stereo.
Maybe after living with both types side by side it will be an easier task for me to decide which combo suits ME the best. Yes all about ME here. My money, my room my ears that simple.
In the end one system [ main system] should be just fine.
charles
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Doug, your name was thrown out recently on AC;
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108032.msg1625092#msg1625092
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Yes all about ME here. My money, my room my ears that simple.
As it should be.
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Doug, your name was thrown out recently on AC;
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108032.msg1625092#msg1625092
Hey Doug,
Nice to have you here. Speaking of tuners, I had a Revox years ago and was living in so California at the time. It was a very good product. Finally sold it and the darn thing had a burned out led. It would have been expensive to get that panel replaced, but it wasn't an issue at all for the guy who bought it.
Doug, if you are indeed knowledgeable in tuners, it would be great if you could post how you developed an interest in tuners, what brands you've owned over the years and is there much of a market at all for them nowadays.
Nick
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I love my tuna. But recently my main station, 24/7/365 classical developed a leftward skew to the stereo image. I have emailed the engineer and the station owner, but no reply, no repair. My friend (also a radio engineer) thinks probably they know about the problem but the fix is too expensive. And of course only a crazy audiophile gives a shit anyway. So I'm just trying to deal with it. It is good therapy for my OCD.
I once had a short email correspondence with the sexy waif-voiced morning announcer on this station, talking about the (then) new Leon Fleischer album, Two Hands. We both agreed how much we loved the music, then I had to ruin it by mentioning the mediocre sound quality. She never replied. :rofl:
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Yeah, they are audiophile prone, they've customized their broadcast equipment for better SQ from what I've heard. It definitely plays lower than 50Hz. And the analog compression they use on everything is so delicious.
I usually donate a few hundred bucks to them each year. So next time when the old lady fund raising volunteer asks me what reward gift I want I'll say "I want you to fix the damn channel balance!" :x
I always fantasize about calling up the station owner, and bribing her with a $100k donation if she'll fix the balance, or move the hayseed DJ to the middle of the night and the sexy one to afternoon, or promote my favorite cool avant garde Sunday 6-9pm show to M-F 9-12pm instead. She'd probably say, "make it 200k and it's all yours - sucka!"
I will continue to pester them. I know they do care about SQ. Actually, the program manager usually does respond to my emails, when I ask "what was that guitar music you played on August 1st at 9:22PM." So I'll try him next. They're webstream has a centered image, but the radio sounds so much better.
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The tuner talk piqued my interest as to what Revox tuner it was...and the B760 photo sure looks familiar. We had a choice of some good stations back in "El Lay" and I had an outdoor antenna. The late night listening was very good. Not sure why I sold it, but I can say that about other equipment as well. I think I also had a Tandberg tuner, but I'm not recalling the particulars right now
Nick
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My TU-717 is very pretty too.
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Sitting on a Sansui TU9500. Any good ?
charles
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I have given up on FM tuners since moving out to Brightwaters. O don't have an outdoor antenna mast on the new house and we are really on the fringe area of the coverage maps so reception was spotty at best. And once I got the Bluesound Node and found out that I can stream 95% of the FM stations in the area with no signal problems it was game, set match and the tuner has been in stoage in the garage ever since.
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I have an AU and TU-9500 sitting on a shelf in the black hole.
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I have an AU and TU-9500 sitting on a shelf in the black hole.
I know you have radio stations around there because your tube preamp was playing radio a couple years ago. :rofl:
Still have that preamp? Do you ever use the tuna?
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I have an AU and TU-9500 sitting on a shelf in the black hole.
I know you have radio stations around there because your tube preamp was playing radio a couple years ago. :rofl:
Still have that preamp? Do you ever use the tuna?
No I haven't in years Rich. Well i do in the company ride. No CD player. LOL
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Thanks Doug so happy you came back your input is really good. Sansui time oh my!!
charles