Audio System Ease of Use

[Phil]

This is a little off-thread, but I can't help commenting about audiophile systems and ease of use.

My own system is quirky.  An APLHifi re-design of a Denon 3910 (includes preamp function) requires special treatment because the re-design has to work within the framework of the Denon.  Meaning, I have two remotes - one to operate the usual start, stop, etc. and one to use the volume control or to switch to digital inputs.  And the Denon makes a few noises when it starts (remember - no separate preamp), so you turn on the source first, then the amp (and the reverse when you turn off the system).

My poor wife has the instructions written out so that she can use the system.   

So why go this route?  It sounds pretty darn good and reduced the number of boxes and connections.  Simplicity?  Kind of. 

Now back to the thread...

[richidoo]

Great topic Phil!!

I don't know if I can live without tubes, but I gotta get a system that my 6yo daughter can turn on and listen to her music, by herself without getting burned, and without getting me frustrated by noncompliance with the operating procedure. It is very important to me to give them that privilege of free and easy music anytime. When I was 6yo I fell in love with music by playing my father's TT. My kids already play piano and sing all the time. They use X box for playing a small handful of pop disks, but they love classical and jazz too but it can't connect to the network where all the music is.

It might mean not simplifying but having two systems, one for excellent everyday playback in the main room, that everyone can use, and another in a smaller room with perfectionist tendencies and my beoved tubes. A smaller perfectionist audio system is easier to swallow than a large one.

I was just PMing with a friend who is seeking a simplified system also, he recommended the Bryston B100, so I'm gonna check it out. I also like a system like Parasound Halo, where the components are connected and can communicate and be controlled with one remote, or better yet an external RS232 control system. The Bryston's warrantee would give me ease in letting kids use it without supervision.
Rich

[stereofool]

Rich,

You might want to look for a used Linn Classic (if I'm remembering the name).

Depending on the version...the older one...an amp/preamp/cdplayer...all in one small box; the newer one adds a tuner. Being a Linn it sounds pretty good...especially considering the very compact size. Thus, all you have to do is add a pair of speakers and you are good to go  ! VERY simple!!!

You can look at one of mine...soon.

[Carlman]

I like simple operation.  Tubes are a nightmare and I hate them.  But I love the way they sound.  It took me a long time to decide for myself that using tubes in the pre and ss for the amp is the best all-around building block for my hi-fi. I had been told this was the best scenario by my 'hifi mentor' and others.  I'm just thick, I guess.

Anyway, when I found the Mac gear that had a remote, a cable that synced the amp/preamp turn-on process, and would just 'play music'... I was sold.  Anyone can turn on a Mac system and figure out what to do.  Big knobs, clearly labeled.. that just work.  The remote isn't as easy but I think they market to people who would have a Harmony or other remote anyway.

Now that I'm integrating a home-theater with the hifi, ease-of-use is a high-priority factor.  It's a given to me.  It needs to be easy to go from playing through an audio PC, to watching a movie, playing a game, and then analog audio sources.  If I get a 1-2% improvement but it's 10% harder to use, I probably wouldn't do it... especially if it was permanent.  It's one of the reasons the Altmann dac bugs me so much.. It's not finished... the saving grace is that it sounds really good and you only have to 'operate' it once.  I can almost deal with it.

I think 'neat and tidy' and 'easy to use' would sum up my system's 'presence' in my room.  It has to sound really good also...   But it seems once I got the source, amp, and speakers right, I could tweak forever.

-C

[bobrex]

Carl, what's the nightmare with tubes?  I'm almost all tubes - I've been running the same line stage and phono stage for 7 years, I've replaced the tube sets in each once on each, and that was just early this year.  Yeah, I've played with the 6sn7s on my amps (because I can), but the 2A3s were only replaced once, and I just did the rectifiers this spring.  I built my amps in 2000, so they have 8 years on the clock.  During this entire time, I've had 1 tube failure.  Since most people don't hang onto equipment as long as I do, I would expect similar performance for most people.

Sure, some equipment can eat tubes, you just need to stay away from that equipment.

[Carlman]

I should've edited that before posting.. got in a hurry earlier.. I don't hate tubes, they're not a nightmare..    I have found tubes to be a hassle for me.. and once you're settled into the hobby, and your system is pretty stable, swapping tubes to tailor the sound can be fun. 
Noting a few hassles with tubes...
Cryo'ing tubes can make 1 go bad.. not always.. some preamps I've had EAT tubes (and are easily avoidable)...
Most amps require yearly or more replacements...
Finding that 1 bad tube is a real pain..
Checking bias every once in a while is required.... not huge but something else to 'do'.
Then there's the warm-up time.. can't just flip it on and listen... I don't like leaving them on all the time, either. 

I only listen once or twice a week.  With the SS it can stay on and ready all the time.  The preamp and DAC tubes stay on all the time and I'm not worried about them.. they're small and protected... and don't get much juice... and are easy and inexpensive to replace (most of the time).  But if I do turn it off, I can listen in a matter of seconds... and with remote turn-on.

So, that's what I meant... I don't hate tubes by any means.  I'd like to hear a set of Rogue monoblocks in my system one day... we'll see...

-C

[Phil]

The Butler amp runs the tubes at a low temperature and so can run for many, many years.  But my source runs hot as a pistol (I like my discs baked a bit).  Luckily, it only has one tube, so it isn't hard to hear a tube failure.  But it is a little sneaky when the tube is getting old but doesn't fail completely.  Sometimes it sounds OK but other times not.  That little tube drove me crazy for a while until I figured out it was the only remaining variable to try.

The ability to start up the system and just listen is a thread in itself!  Yes, tubes take their time to stabilize, or whatever they do.  In some systems, they just seem to get better and better as the hours pass by, then poop out.  I love the sound but they do annoy me at times.

[richidoo]

Phil, you nailed it. If tubes didn't wear out and cost a lot of money to replace, there would be no problem. Leave them on all the time and have great sound ready to go. I feel guilty firing up the system at 10pm for a quicky when I know it will just heat cycle the tubes and never even get fully warmed up. Crazy...

[rollo]

Solid stste for casual listening and full bore tubadelic for the emotioanl impact. Yeah baby. My recco buy as many back up tubes as you can afford. They will NOT be getting any cheaper. Just scored a pair of RCA 211s, Amperex 1AT7 black plates and a pair of Tungsol 5687s.


charles