Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB vs Music Hall MMF 3.3

[James Edward]

I'm leaning toward the Pro-Ject; it's 100.00 less (599.00 vs 699.00), and both are equipped with the Ortofon 2M Red cart. Both have electronic speed change, an essential feature for me. Am I missing something important for the extra hundred bucks? Thanks for any thoughts.


https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/debut-carbon-esprit-sb-dc/


https://musichallaudio.com/product/mmf-3-3-turntable/

[Nick B]

I’d go with the Project. It’s design is similar to my Basis turntable, if you are going to play 78s. Your post has nudged me a bit more to start working on reviving my vinyl.

[Folsom]

I would go vintage at that price point.

[James Edward]

I just ordered the Pro-Ject table. Slightly impulsive, but what the heck... A mini meeting is in the very near future.

[Nick B]

I just ordered the Pro-Ject table. Slightly impulsive, but what the heck... A mini meeting is in the very near future.

An impulsive decision with audio...nah  pls let us know how you like it.

[James Edward]

Oh I will let you know for sure. I'm not a complete newbie; I've had a few decent tables in my time- a SOTA Comet, which somehow wound up with a friend, and my latest prior to this, the VPI Classic. I sold the Classic because of the unipivot arm- I never felt comfortable with all the wobbling. Each time I used it, it felt like a lab experiment, and it always seemed so delicate. Playing records was no fun. I felt like I should have a lab coat on and some beakers around me... Not to mention the cost.
I'm really looking forward to this. I read that my Luxman integrated has a pretty decent phono stage.
I'll keep you posted.

[Nick B]

You’ve got more vinyl experience than me. Don’t think I’ve put a record on since maybe the late 90s. Your mention of the unipivot arm is interesting because I’m going to resurrect my Graham 1.5t arm. I think there’s an Ultra 500 mounted on it. The Ultra needs to be looked at. Maybe a trip to Peter Ledermann at Soundsmith if he’ll accept it.
I look forward to your impressions.

[James Edward]

Played some 12" 45's today. They sounded great as they always do. In an interesting twist, the Pro-Ject table appears much less prone to footfalls than was my VPI Classic. So far so good.

[tmazz]

You’ve got more vinyl experience than me. Don’t think I’ve put a record on since maybe the late 90s. Your mention of the unipivot arm is interesting because I’m going to resurrect my Graham 1.5t arm. I think there’s an Ultra 500 mounted on it. The Ultra needs to be looked at. Maybe a trip to Peter Ledermann at Soundsmith if he’ll accept it.
I look forward to your impressions.

Peter does great work, but he sure takes his time. Be prepared to wait 2 or 3 months to get your cartridge back.

Also, I would recommend having him install whatever stylus and cantilever most closely matches what originally came with the cart. He has all kind "better " upgrades, but they often do not result in better sound. Remember that your cart was voiced with the OEM stylus. I see all kinds of adds on the net for Blue point specials that were upgraded by Soundsmith to a Boron or some other exotic cantilever and they are for sale with only 10 hours on it. This tells me that the owner spent extra money to "upgrade" the cart and when it come back they did not like the sound. When I got mine done I had him install the base level aluminum cantilever, because that is what it originally came with and when I got it back it sounded just fine.

[tmazz]

I just ordered the Pro-Ject table. Slightly impulsive, but what the heck... A mini meeting is in the very near future.

I think you made a good choice. I ordered one of those for a friend at work and I was very impressed at what it could do at that price point.

[Nick B]

You’ve got more vinyl experience than me. Don’t think I’ve put a record on since maybe the late 90s. Your mention of the unipivot arm is interesting because I’m going to resurrect my Graham 1.5t arm. I think there’s an Ultra 500 mounted on it. The Ultra needs to be looked at. Maybe a trip to Peter Ledermann at Soundsmith if he’ll accept it.
I look forward to your impressions.

Peter does great work, but he sure takes his time. Be prepared to wait 2 or 3 months to get your cartridge back.

Also, I would recommend having him install whatever stylus and cantilever most closely matches what originally came with the cart. He has all kind "better " upgrades, but they often do not result in better sound. Remember that your cart was voiced with the OEM stylus. I see all kinds of adds on the net for Blue point specials that were upgraded by Soundsmith to a Boron or some other exotic cantilever and they are for sale with only 10 hours on it. This tells me that the owner spent extra money to "upgrade" the cart and when it come back they did not like the sound. When I got mine done I had him install the base level aluminum cantilever, because that is what it originally came with and when I got it back it sounded just fine.

Yes, I’ve read about the possible delays sending stuff to Soundsmith. My issue might be a simple fix as the cartridge body has separated from the tone arm mounting piece. The stylus is missing. I could try and glue the parts together and buy a replacement stylus. As Shure got out of the cartridge business in 2018, there are suggestions for replacement styli on the web. I just wanted it looked at by an experienced technician and his name comes to mind first. I’ve seen a few of his YouTube videos and found them quite interesting.

[S Clark]

You might give Steve Leung at VAS audio a call.  He's been around for a good while, a bit cheaper than Soundsmith, and a heckuva lot faster.  I can recommend him based on three cartridges he repaired for me. 

But after re reading your post, it might be really simple.  Could you post a photo?

[Nick B]

You might give Steve Leung at VAS audio a call.  He's been around for a good while, a bit cheaper than Soundsmith, and a heckuva lot faster.  I can recommend him based on three cartridges he repaired for me. 

But after re reading your post, it might be really simple.  Could you post a photo?

I’ve had issues before posting pics, but I’ll try it again. Prefer not to keep pics on a 3rd party site. If I get stuck, I’ll advise and maybe you or another member can post for me. I appreciate the tip about Steve Leung and I’ll look him up right now. The really hard part about reviving the vinyl setup is the four pillars on the Basis table need to be removed from the bottom to replace the silicone damping fluid. The 70+ lb table needs to be lifted onto the kitchen countertop so that one pillar overhangs the edge. I then have access to the bottom. I would need help lifting it.

[Nick B]

The pics posting issue persists. The Apple pics are in jpeg format and it appears that isn’t supported on this site. I’m able to reduce the pic file size to medium and that’s within this forum’s 600 kB limit per pic. I don’t want to get into converting my jpegs into an allowable format here each time I want to post pics. It’s probably a lot easier than I’m making it out to be, but that’s my understanding of it. If someone wants to pm me their email address and post two pics for me, pls go ahead and do that.
I did find Steve Leung and the VAS website.

[S Clark]

The pics posting issue persists. The Apple pics are in jpeg format and it appears that isn’t supported on this site. I’m able to reduce the pic file size to medium and that’s within this forum’s 600 kB limit per pic. I don’t want to get into converting my jpegs into an allowable format here each time I want to post pics. It’s probably a lot easier than I’m making it out to be, but that’s my understanding of it. If someone wants to pm me their email address and post two pics for me, pls go ahead and do that.
I did find Steve Leung and the VAS website.

If you want to send it by phone, I'll PM you my cell phone number.  I've actually glued cartridge bodies back together with some success.
Scott