AudioNervosa
Music Ward => Music Discussion => Topic started by: tmazz on June 18, 2021, 09:27:37 PM
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I came across this quote the other day from Alan Parsons describing how he as a musician feels about audiophiles:
(https://i.redd.it/zp7hpu6vj7411.jpg)
It makes me think, how many times in this hobby do we end up putting the cart before the horse?
Comments? Thoughts?
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I think the man is brilliant. He has a grasp of reality that few possess in music. I also think that he is about 90% right. People that call themselves audiophiles cover a lot of types. I have found the majority of them to be gear-heads. There is a small group of people that are true music lovers. Coming from a musical family I gave been in love with music: listening to it, making it, recording it and building gear to those ends for about 60 years. I do what I do for the love of the medium and trying to spread the joy, mostly to people of modest means. This makes me happy.
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I think the man is brilliant. He has a grasp of reality that few possess in music. I also think that he is about 90% right. People that call themselves audiophiles cover a lot of types. I have found the majority of them to be gear-heads. There is a small group of people that are true music lovers. Coming from a musical family I gave been in love with music: listening to it, making it, recording it and building gear to those ends for about 60 years. I do what I do for the love of the medium and trying to spread the joy, mostly to people of modest means. This makes me happy.
Dave,
Your dedication to and love of music has very much contributed to my enjoyment and to music lovers worldwide. Thanks and keep doing what you’re doing!!
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Definitely guilty… There are times when I listen just for the bombast of it all. It’s fun on a different level- different than listening cerebrally or emotionally, though I guess it does tick the emotional box on some level.
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I think the man is brilliant. He has a grasp of reality that few possess in music. I also think that he is about 90% right. People that call themselves audiophiles cover a lot of types. I have found the majority of them to be gear-heads. There is a small group of people that are true music lovers. Coming from a musical family I gave been in love with music: listening to it, making it, recording it and building gear to those ends for about 60 years. I do what I do for the love of the medium and trying to spread the joy, mostly to people of modest means. This makes me happy.
Thanks, Nick. I wasn't fishing for compliments here, but yours is greatly appreciated!
Dave,
Your dedication to and love of music has very much contributed to my enjoyment and to music lovers worldwide. Thanks and keep doing what you’re doing!!
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When people ask me what my hobbies are, I usually say I’m a music lover or music enthusiast. Those are good, descriptive words as, now especially, music is so much fun to listen to and these tweaks I’ve been trying have been contributing much as well.
If I had more money to play around with, I’m sure I could slip into my gearhead mentality a bit, though.
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It is all about how the music sounds here.
cheers
steve
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It is all about how the music sounds here.
cheers
steve
Exactly. The better the reproduction gear the better the emotional impact. Starting with clean power ending in great speakers. Look we can tap our toes to the car radio for sure. We will dance to the same music from our rigs. Of course the music matters. Now record it better Alan Parsons.
charles
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It is all about how the music sounds here.
cheers
steve
Exactly. The better the reproduction gear the better the emotional impact. Starting with clean power ending in great speakers. Look we can tap our toes to the car radio for sure. We will dance to the same music from our rigs. Of course the music matters. Now record it better Alan Parsons.
charles
Dude! I have seen you dance to the music. That's what it is all about :thumb:
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There was a time in all our lives as audio hobbiests where equipment was what it was about. Don't deny it. That was our learning phase where we experimented and played with all sorts of stuff someone outside the hobby would call "crazy." But, if you have evolved as I have you reach a comfort zone ... a point where the music shines through ... a point where you are satisfied with your equipment, or maybe just tired of playing that never ending game of trade ups.
You can now relax.
You can enjoy life without pressures.
You can stop spending money on trivialities.
You can enjoy the music more.
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Bob I could not agree with you more and I am in that place now.
For me, I kind of got pushed there when I got married 7 years ago and ended up moving. First off I lost my dedicated room and had no other choice but yo move my system into a shared space that was quite a bit smaller than what I had in my old house. This lead to several things. First off the some of the gear I used in the dedicated room would not work in the new space. Not only was there not enough space to fit it, but even when I squeezed it into the new space the speakers simply overpowered the room. And secondly, I had spent over 25 years tweaking things in the dedicated room. Even I I found a house withe a big enough space to use the same gear it wouldn't have sounded the same in a new space.
So I reconciled myself with the fact that the system was not going to sound as good as it did in the past, but it could still sound quite good and I started to focus more on enjoying the music. Have I made some gear changes since then, sure, bu t they were more driven by my desire to add new functionality to the system that would make it easier for me to enjoy music (i.e. computer and Roon based library) that it was by my desire to chase that last 2% of audio quality. And quite frankly I am much happier for it and am finding myself getting more pleasure from finally just listening to the system as opposed to trying to upgrade it.
But I do have to say that even when I was in the equipment upgrading phase my goal was always to get gear that would allow me to enjoy the music more. my biggest sense of accomplishment after upgrading was when it was all done and I could sit in the sweet spot fire up the salt lamps , turn off the rest of the room lights and sit in the almost dark listening to Dark Side of the moon and some of my other favorite music. For me it was always about improving the musical enjoyment, not improving the sound just for the sake of doing it.
And don't get me wrong, I am not saying that I am right and the gearheads are wrong. If you get your kicks out of pushing the sonic limits of your system just to say you can, by all means, have at it. Your getting pleasure out of gear is no less or more valid a reason for being in the hobby as somebody else's love of music. Hey whatever floats your boat.
But I think Parsons' comment is more base on his frustration that he puts a lots of time and effort into creating music as an art form and then watches (some) audiophiles simply use it to evaluate their gear which in his mind shows no respect for the art that he created. can understand where he comes from
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For me, personally, it is all about realism. Does the voice sound real. How about the instruments. I want to feel as though I am actually there as I love how instruments sound live. I can enjoy the Vienna Symphony, Ben King, or Eva Cassidy as if I am in the audience live.
My brother played the coronet and I played a trombone and don't want them sounding weird. I enjoy the live orchestra or a jazz session, and I want to hear it anytime I wish, as if I am in the audience.
cheers
steve
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I don't try to "recreate" the live experience. I shoot a lot lower. If it sounds to me that there is this mirage of the event happening before me Im ecstatic, but that rarely happens and changes with source material so my goals are modest. I get burnt out from this hobby.
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For me, personally, it is all about realism. Does the voice sound real. How about the instruments. I want to feel as though I am actually there as I love how instruments sound live. I can enjoy the Vienna Symphony, Ben King, or Eva Cassidy as if I am in the audience live.
My brother played the coronet and I played a trombone and don't want them sounding weird. I enjoy the live orchestra or a jazz session, and I want to hear it anytime I wish, as if I am in the audience.
cheers
steve
My goal as well Steve. I love the chase. I love the experimenting. For me it will never end. I enjoy a state of the art system every night. It IS NOT about the gear. It is about pulling out the potential of the system to make the music I love sound more life like.
If I had to compromise in a new room then I would choose the right speaker for that space with the best front end I could afford.
charles
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We had a discussion along these lines on ClubHouse audiophile room the other night.
You might be surprised that some musicians said the sound was more important than the music itself, but for them that ranged a bit wider than JUST audiophile systems. Their point was if it isn't complete then it isn't really why they're into music.
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For me, personally, it is all about realism. Does the voice sound real. How about the instruments. I want to feel as though I am actually there as I love how instruments sound live. I can enjoy the Vienna Symphony, Ben King, or Eva Cassidy as if I am in the audience live.
My brother played the coronet and I played a trombone and don't want them sounding weird. I enjoy the live orchestra or a jazz session, and I want to hear it anytime I wish, as if I am in the audience.
cheers
steve
My goal as well Steve. I love the chase. I love the experimenting. For me it will never end. I enjoy a state of the art system every night. It IS NOT about the gear. It is about pulling out the potential of the system to make the music I love sound more life like.
If I had to compromise in a new room then I would choose the right speaker for that space with the best front end I could afford.
charles
Thanks Charles. I am glad you understand as I may not have been as clear as I should have been.
Concerning purchases, I do have an advantage over most in that I can check pre, amp, ics for absolute accuracy, so I obtained that first and then source, speakers, speaker wire in a see/saw to obtain most accurate/natural music possible. But that is not possible unless one understands which are the most accurate components. The average person won't be able to perform such tests.
That is why I believe there should be a reviewer who actually tests electronic components in a calibrated system instead of just sticking a component in a who knows what system and listening as reviewers do.
Of course, there would be a charge for such services, but would save the customer a substantial amount of time and money.
Cheers
steve
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Steve a fruitful idea. Maybe hard to accomplish .
charles
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For me, personally, it is all about realism. Does the voice sound real. How about the instruments. I want to feel as though I am actually there as I love how instruments sound live. I can enjoy the Vienna Symphony, Ben King, or Eva Cassidy as if I am in the audience live.
My brother played the coronet and I played a trombone and don't want them sounding weird. I enjoy the live orchestra or a jazz session, and I want to hear it anytime I wish, as if I am in the audience.
cheers
steve
My goal as well Steve. I love the chase. I love the experimenting. For me it will never end. I enjoy a state of the art system every night. It IS NOT about the gear. It is about pulling out the potential of the system to make the music I love sound more life like.
If I had to compromise in a new room then I would choose the right speaker for that space with the best front end I could afford.
charles
Thanks Charles. I am glad you understand as I may not have been as clear as I should have been.
Concerning purchases, I do have an advantage over most in that I can check pre, amp, ics for absolute accuracy, so I obtained that first and then source, speakers, speaker wire in a see/saw to obtain most accurate/natural music possible. But that is not possible unless one understands which are the most accurate components. The average person won't be able to perform such tests.
That is why I believe there should be a reviewer who actually tests electronic components in a calibrated system instead of just sticking a component in a who knows what system and listening as reviewers do.
Of course, there would be a charge for such services, but would save the customer a substantial amount of time and money.
Cheers
steve
Steve,
A very interesting idea. I’m assuming the summary of the results wouldn’t be proprietary…
So if you did this for a client, what kind of written comments or numbers on a rating scale would you provide with your services?
Nick
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For me, personally, it is all about realism. Does the voice sound real. How about the instruments. I want to feel as though I am actually there as I love how instruments sound live. I can enjoy the Vienna Symphony, Ben King, or Eva Cassidy as if I am in the audience live.
My brother played the coronet and I played a trombone and don't want them sounding weird. I enjoy the live orchestra or a jazz session, and I want to hear it anytime I wish, as if I am in the audience.
cheers
steve
My goal as well Steve. I love the chase. I love the experimenting. For me it will never end. I enjoy a state of the art system every night. It IS NOT about the gear. It is about pulling out the potential of the system to make the music I love sound more life like.
If I had to compromise in a new room then I would choose the right speaker for that space with the best front end I could afford.
charles
Thanks Charles. I am glad you understand as I may not have been as clear as I should have been.
Concerning purchases, I do have an advantage over most in that I can check pre, amp, ics for absolute accuracy, so I obtained that first and then source, speakers, speaker wire in a see/saw to obtain most accurate/natural music possible. But that is not possible unless one understands which are the most accurate components. The average person won't be able to perform such tests.
That is why I believe there should be a reviewer who actually tests electronic components in a calibrated system instead of just sticking a component in a who knows what system and listening as reviewers do.
Of course, there would be a charge for such services, but would save the customer a substantial amount of time and money.
Cheers
steve
Steve,
A very interesting idea. I’m assuming the summary of the results wouldn’t be proprietary…
So if you did this for a client, what kind of written comments or numbers on a rating scale would you provide with your services?
Nick
Right now, I am thinking a written review but upon further thought, how to compare to other brands since time frame is involved. A number system might be advantageous.
However, as more components are evaluated, a component's "number rating" may have to be adjusted to accomodate a more accurate component.
The third consideration is if proprietary, only one entity is helped at a time. That is not helpful for the public.
The fourth is if made public, every reviewer who reviews,,,, and probably every manufacturer plus shills involved in comparisons would attack credibility wherever and whenever possible. It would be the audio west, like the wild west on forums.
I would imagine that the possibility of being permanently banned would be a great possibility on some forums.
On second thought,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
steve
-
For me, personally, it is all about realism. Does the voice sound real. How about the instruments. I want to feel as though I am actually there as I love how instruments sound live. I can enjoy the Vienna Symphony, Ben King, or Eva Cassidy as if I am in the audience live.
My brother played the coronet and I played a trombone and don't want them sounding weird. I enjoy the live orchestra or a jazz session, and I want to hear it anytime I wish, as if I am in the audience.
cheers
steve
My goal as well Steve. I love the chase. I love the experimenting. For me it will never end. I enjoy a state of the art system every night. It IS NOT about the gear. It is about pulling out the potential of the system to make the music I love sound more life like.
If I had to compromise in a new room then I would choose the right speaker for that space with the best front end I could afford.
charles
Thanks Charles. I am glad you understand as I may not have been as clear as I should have been.
Concerning purchases, I do have an advantage over most in that I can check pre, amp, ics for absolute accuracy, so I obtained that first and then source, speakers, speaker wire in a see/saw to obtain most accurate/natural music possible. But that is not possible unless one understands which are the most accurate components. The average person won't be able to perform such tests.
That is why I believe there should be a reviewer who actually tests electronic components in a calibrated system instead of just sticking a component in a who knows what system and listening as reviewers do.
Of course, there would be a charge for such services, but would save the customer a substantial amount of time and money.
Cheers
steve
Steve,
A very interesting idea. I’m assuming the summary of the results wouldn’t be proprietary…
So if you did this for a client, what kind of written comments or numbers on a rating scale would you provide with your services?
Nick
Right now, I am thinking a written review but upon further thought, how to compare to other brands since time frame is involved.
The second problem is if proprietary, only one entity is helped at a time. That is not helpful for the public.
The third is if made public, every reviewer who reviews,,,, and probably every manufacturer plus shills involved in comparisons would attack credibility wherever and whenever possible. It would be the audio west, like the wild west on forums.
I would imagine that the possibility of being permanently banned would be a great possibility on some forums.
On second thought, maybe not such a great idea, unless a different way is possible.
steve
Steve, I think you would get skinned alive. Because nobody, especially someone who bought one, wants to hear that their gear isn't perfect......... :roll:
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For me, personally, it is all about realism. Does the voice sound real. How about the instruments. I want to feel as though I am actually there as I love how instruments sound live. I can enjoy the Vienna Symphony, Ben King, or Eva Cassidy as if I am in the audience live.
My brother played the coronet and I played a trombone and don't want them sounding weird. I enjoy the live orchestra or a jazz session, and I want to hear it anytime I wish, as if I am in the audience.
cheers
steve
My goal as well Steve. I love the chase. I love the experimenting. For me it will never end. I enjoy a state of the art system every night. It IS NOT about the gear. It is about pulling out the potential of the system to make the music I love sound more life like.
If I had to compromise in a new room then I would choose the right speaker for that space with the best front end I could afford.
charles
Thanks Charles. I am glad you understand as I may not have been as clear as I should have been.
Concerning purchases, I do have an advantage over most in that I can check pre, amp, ics for absolute accuracy, so I obtained that first and then source, speakers, speaker wire in a see/saw to obtain most accurate/natural music possible. But that is not possible unless one understands which are the most accurate components. The average person won't be able to perform such tests.
That is why I believe there should be a reviewer who actually tests electronic components in a calibrated system instead of just sticking a component in a who knows what system and listening as reviewers do.
Of course, there would be a charge for such services, but would save the customer a substantial amount of time and money.
Cheers
steve
Steve,
A very interesting idea. I’m assuming the summary of the results wouldn’t be proprietary…
So if you did this for a client, what kind of written comments or numbers on a rating scale would you provide with your services?
Nick
Right now, I am thinking a written review but upon further thought, how to compare to other brands since time frame is involved.
The second problem is if proprietary, only one entity is helped at a time. That is not helpful for the public.
The third is if made public, every reviewer who reviews,,,, and probably every manufacturer plus shills involved in comparisons would attack credibility wherever and whenever possible. It would be the audio west, like the wild west on forums.
I would imagine that the possibility of being permanently banned would be a great possibility on some forums.
On second thought, maybe not such a great idea, unless a different way is possible.
steve
Steve, I think you would get skinned alive. Because nobody, especially someone who bought one, wants to hear that their gear isn't perfect......... :roll:
I am sure you are correct T. I was hoping some might like the truith though. However, some 12 years ago I remember when Dr. Kunchur presented his 5 year audio perception paper involving 3 national medical organizations, numerous universities, nuclear site scientists from all over the world, and peer reviewed, that a major attempt by audio entities/organizations/individuals attempted to discredit his paper via posting obvious false information, with some "audio" patents possibly being deemed worthless by the paper.
Upon further reflection,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
steve
-
For me, personally, it is all about realism. Does the voice sound real. How about the instruments. I want to feel as though I am actually there as I love how instruments sound live. I can enjoy the Vienna Symphony, Ben King, or Eva Cassidy as if I am in the audience live.
My brother played the coronet and I played a trombone and don't want them sounding weird. I enjoy the live orchestra or a jazz session, and I want to hear it anytime I wish, as if I am in the audience.
cheers
steve
My goal as well Steve. I love the chase. I love the experimenting. For me it will never end. I enjoy a state of the art system every night. It IS NOT about the gear. It is about pulling out the potential of the system to make the music I love sound more life like.
If I had to compromise in a new room then I would choose the right speaker for that space with the best front end I could afford.
charles
Thanks Charles. I am glad you understand as I may not have been as clear as I should have been.
Concerning purchases, I do have an advantage over most in that I can check pre, amp, ics for absolute accuracy, so I obtained that first and then source, speakers, speaker wire in a see/saw to obtain most accurate/natural music possible. But that is not possible unless one understands which are the most accurate components. The average person won't be able to perform such tests.
That is why I believe there should be a reviewer who actually tests electronic components in a calibrated system instead of just sticking a component in a who knows what system and listening as reviewers do.
Of course, there would be a charge for such services, but would save the customer a substantial amount of time and money.
Cheers
steve
Steve,
A very interesting idea. I’m assuming the summary of the results wouldn’t be proprietary…
So if you did this for a client, what kind of written comments or numbers on a rating scale would you provide with your services?
Nick
Right now, I am thinking a written review but upon further thought, how to compare to other brands since time frame is involved.
The second problem is if proprietary, only one entity is helped at a time. That is not helpful for the public.
The third is if made public, every reviewer who reviews,,,, and probably every manufacturer plus shills involved in comparisons would attack credibility wherever and whenever possible. It would be the audio west, like the wild west on forums.
I would imagine that the possibility of being permanently banned would be a great possibility on some forums.
On second thought, maybe not such a great idea, unless a different way is possible.
steve
Steve, I think you would get skinned alive. Because nobody, especially someone who bought one, wants to hear that their gear isn't perfect......... :roll:
I am sure you are correct T. I was hoping some might like the truith though. However, some 12 years ago I remember when Dr. Kunchur presented his 5 year audio perception paper involving 3 national medical organizations, numerous universities, nuclear site scientists from all over the world, and peer reviewed, that a major attempt by audio entities/organizations/individuals attempted to discredit his paper via posting obvious false information, with some "audio" patents possibly being deemed worthless by the paper.
Upon further reflection,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
steve
Steve,
I think Tom’s right. It’s all quite fascinating to me, but some guys would definitely not handle your straightforward opinions if it were not what they wanted to hear. I thought our dac experiment was interesting and informative. I’d be curious what your opinion would now be of my BP dac with the Jupiter caps. But my curiosity would cost me shipping and 2-3 weeks of time and would take up your time as well.
Are you tinkering with new dacs or mods or are you completely settled on the schitt modi 2?
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For me, personally, it is all about realism. Does the voice sound real. How about the instruments. I want to feel as though I am actually there as I love how instruments sound live. I can enjoy the Vienna Symphony, Ben King, or Eva Cassidy as if I am in the audience live.
My brother played the coronet and I played a trombone and don't want them sounding weird. I enjoy the live orchestra or a jazz session, and I want to hear it anytime I wish, as if I am in the audience.
cheers
steve
My goal as well Steve. I love the chase. I love the experimenting. For me it will never end. I enjoy a state of the art system every night. It IS NOT about the gear. It is about pulling out the potential of the system to make the music I love sound more life like.
If I had to compromise in a new room then I would choose the right speaker for that space with the best front end I could afford.
charles
Thanks Charles. I am glad you understand as I may not have been as clear as I should have been.
Concerning purchases, I do have an advantage over most in that I can check pre, amp, ics for absolute accuracy, so I obtained that first and then source, speakers, speaker wire in a see/saw to obtain most accurate/natural music possible. But that is not possible unless one understands which are the most accurate components. The average person won't be able to perform such tests.
That is why I believe there should be a reviewer who actually tests electronic components in a calibrated system instead of just sticking a component in a who knows what system and listening as reviewers do.
Of course, there would be a charge for such services, but would save the customer a substantial amount of time and money.
Cheers
steve
Steve,
A very interesting idea. I’m assuming the summary of the results wouldn’t be proprietary…
So if you did this for a client, what kind of written comments or numbers on a rating scale would you provide with your services?
Nick
Right now, I am thinking a written review but upon further thought, how to compare to other brands since time frame is involved.
The second problem is if proprietary, only one entity is helped at a time. That is not helpful for the public.
The third is if made public, every reviewer who reviews,,,, and probably every manufacturer plus shills involved in comparisons would attack credibility wherever and whenever possible. It would be the audio west, like the wild west on forums.
I would imagine that the possibility of being permanently banned would be a great possibility on some forums.
On second thought, maybe not such a great idea, unless a different way is possible.
steve
Steve, I think you would get skinned alive. Because nobody, especially someone who bought one, wants to hear that their gear isn't perfect......... :roll:
I am sure you are correct T. I was hoping some might like the truith though. However, some 12 years ago I remember when Dr. Kunchur presented his 5 year audio perception paper involving 3 national medical organizations, numerous universities, nuclear site scientists from all over the world, and peer reviewed, that a major attempt by audio entities/organizations/individuals attempted to discredit his paper via posting obvious false information, with some "audio" patents possibly being deemed worthless by the paper.
Upon further reflection,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
steve
Steve,
I think Tom’s right. It’s all quite fascinating to me, but some guys would definitely not handle your straightforward opinions if it were not what they wanted to hear. I thought our dac experiment was interesting and informative. I’d be curious what your opinion would now be of my BP dac with the Jupiter caps. But my curiosity would cost me shipping and 2-3 weeks of time and would take up your time as well.
Are you tinkering with new dacs or mods or are you completely settled on the schitt modi 2?
Yes, still using the major upgraded Modi 2. It is nothing like the original sound. As you know I recently tested the Denafrips DAC an audiophile friend loaned to me and the upgraded Modi 2 was superior. -3db at 20hz spec is one of the few specs that mean something. Otherwise it is pretty descent.
The modified Modi 2 also left nothing behind when compared to the highly regarded Monarchy Tube DAC. They were identical sonic wise.
When playing the long version of "Take Five", about 2:30 on, a knob adjustment occurs in the recording, the drum starts to move even further back, and the recording room reflections become quite noticeable. Your there in the recording studio. (CD/redbook is better in this respect than YT premium)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmDDOFXSgAs
cheers
steve