Pandora question

[tmazz]

One of the most pleasant surprises of the mini-mancave project has been the Squeezebox Touch. When I first got the touch I tried it in the main system and was very disappointed with the SQ it produced via its internal DAC. But I bought it to use as a convenient source for background music in the HT system and it sounded fine there (a combination I'm sure of less SQ expectation and the lower resolution of the HT system.)
When we put together the MMC I plugged the Touch into a DTI/XDP combo from Audio Alchemy that I had laying around. The resukts were quite good.Were they as good as a good CD or LP, aboslutely not, but the SQ is very impressive considering that the source material is either compressed ipod files or low bitrate streaming from Pandora. It really doesn't do anything wrong and the audiophile things it is lacking (like soundstage depth and width and inner detail resolution) are just things that are missing as opposed to things tat actively sound nasty. More than good enough for casual listening while doing other things around the house.

Which brings me to the question I wanted to put out to the group. I see that Pandora is offering a premium package for $%36 a year. One of the things that you get access to as a member is a high rate stream. The ad for the "Pandora One" service says that the upgraded signal is 192K. Well when I look at the screen on the SB Touch it says that the free version I am using now is downloading at a rate of 128K. Has anybody out there signed up for this Pandora One service and if so did you notice a significant SQ difference? 128K to 192K is not that big of a bandwidth jump and I was wondering if it drove a significant change in SQ.

[mfsoa]

My understanding is that the 192 is only available for use on a PC - External devices (like the Touch) cannot make use of the higher bit-rate.

Save your money don't go to the show...

If I'm wrong I would consider signing up but lately I have been listening to non-stop and commercial-free internet-streamimg 256 and 320 material that sounds wayyy better than Pandora.
 
-Mike

[richidoo]

I find the Pandora std service to be adequate. Occasionally a bit harsh on a mute trumpet or something difficult to compress, but usually not a problem for me. I would try it if it were $10/year, but not 36. And not even for free if it won't play on my Sonos.

Glad you're enjoying it Tom. You can program some of Mike's radio stations into it to get the higher bitrate.

[satfrat]

Now that has me curious. While I couldn't take advantage of this 192k purchase upgrade through my current HTPC/Off-Ramp 3/MHDT Havana system, I can by using my DirecTv receiver which runs directly to my Sunfire processor which does handle 192k. Pandora on DirecTv receivers are in beta testing stage and AFAIK not yet available to the general public (I could be wrong). I've had it since the 1st of the year now and have actually compared Pandora from both of my sources, they both sound essentially the same (which is to say I'd rather listen to my hard drive audio library ). But 192k totally changes the dynamics of Pandora IMHO. I use to sample actual 192k material using my HTPC's M-Audio soundcard to my Sunfire and it was a glorious sound indeed.  

$3/month ($36/year) doesn't sound all that bad to me,,, I may just have to check it out! Thanks Tom for the heads-up!!!  

Cheers,
Robin

[satfrat]

The ad for the "Pandora One" service says that the upgraded signal is 192K. Well when I look at the screen on the SB Touch it says that the free version I am using now is downloading at a rate of 128K. Has anybody out there signed up for this Pandora One service and if so did you notice a significant SQ difference? 128K to 192K is not that big of a bandwidth jump and I was wondering if it drove a significant change in SQ.

Just checked my DirecTv signal and it's coming though at 44.1k. It seems that if I can't even get a PC rate of 128k through DirecTv, I'm betting subscribing to 192k won't change my lowly 44.1k DirecTv feed. I won't be making that $36 bet. 

Cheers,
Robin

[djdube525]

Another option... Have you looked at Spotify?

Their premium option (more expensive at 9.99/month) offers 320kbps... Recently, their iOS app started offering 320kbps as well.

Now I'm beginning to wonder... What resolution does AirPlay support? Could go iPad/iPhone to Apple TV to HT system. Could skip the touch all together.

Dave

[mfsoa]

Don't confuse the data rate (eg 128 kb/second for medium mp3,  through 1411 kb/sec for Redbook CD up to 9216 kb/sec for 24 bit/192 hz hi-rez) with the sampling rate, which is usually 44.1 khz for mp3 and Redbook, up to 96 or 192 khz for hi-rez.

I've seen the 192 kb/sec data rate and 192 khz sampling rate values get mixed up before so I wanted to clarify.

(hope I got it right)

-Mike

[tmazz]

Thganks guys, lots of good info. 

[satfrat]

Don't confuse the data rate (eg 128 kb/second for medium mp3,  through 1411 kb/sec for Redbook CD up to 9216 kb/sec for 24 bit/192 hz hi-rez) with the sampling rate, which is usually 44.1 khz for mp3 and Redbook, up to 96 or 192 khz for hi-rez.

I've seen the 192 kb/sec data rate and 192 khz sampling rate values get mixed up before so I wanted to clarify.

(hope I got it right)

-Mike

I'll tell ya what you got Mike,,, you got me confused (not really all that hard to do). 

[satfrat]

 
I just took advantage of Pandora's 24 hour demo offer and I'm hard pressed to hear any actual improvements from either my HTPC or my Directv which is still showing 44.1K. From what Mike says, I'm taking it for granted that the Pandora 192K isn't Hi-Rez so my processor will be showing 44.1K regardless. But I was expecting to actually hear a better quality audio from this demo,,,, I am not from both my sources.  

Cheers,
Robin

[satfrat]

http://blog.pandora.com/pandora/archives/2009/05/pandora-one-upg.html

High Quality Streaming: When listening on the web, experience 192K bits per second audio. That's the highest quality streaming experience on the Internet. More bits means better sounding music.

Mike, how does this statement of highest internet quality relate to Hi-Rez (which I have always thought to be "highest quality streaming experience on the Internet") and the 256k & 320k radio that you listen to? I'm  mentally handicapped here. 

Cheers,
Robin

[tmazz]

Don't confuse the data rate (eg 128 kb/second for medium mp3,  through 1411 kb/sec for Redbook CD up to 9216 kb/sec for 24 bit/192 hz hi-rez) with the sampling rate, which is usually 44.1 khz for mp3 and Redbook, up to 96 or 192 khz for hi-rez.

I've seen the 192 kb/sec data rate and 192 khz sampling rate values get mixed up before so I wanted to clarify.

(hope I got it right)

-Mike

I'll tell ya what you got Mike,,, you got me confused (not really all that hard to do). 

Robin,

The 192K hi res file we get from places like HD Tracks are 192,000 samples per second with each sample being 24 bits long whereas what Pandora is offering is a 192 kilobit per second bitstream which is 24x less bandwidth than the hi res files

[satfrat]

Robin,

The 192K hi res file we get from places like HD Tracks are 192,000 samples per second with each sample being 24 bits long whereas what Pandora is offering is a 192 kilobit per second bitstream which is 24x less bandwidth than the hi res files

OK,,, I guess I got my Khz confused with just K,,, those
k's are killers. 

Sooo how does Pandora's claim of 192k being the "highest quality streaming" against 320k internet radio channels? Are we talking apples to apples here and if so, isn't Pandora's highest quality streaming on the internet claim BS?   

During my 24 hour demo, I have been routinely switching the audio quality back to normal, then high quality and I'm having a really hard time telling the difference between the 2. Then again, the switch only happens at the beginning of the next song so there's really no way to do a comparison of tracks. Regardless I'll probably be listening to a lot of Pandora radio for the next couple of hours. 

Cheers,
Robin

[djdube525]

Don't confuse the data rate (eg 128 kb/second for medium mp3,  through 1411 kb/sec for Redbook CD up to 9216 kb/sec for 24 bit/192 hz hi-rez) with the sampling rate, which is usually 44.1 khz for mp3 and Redbook, up to 96 or 192 khz for hi-rez.

I've seen the 192 kb/sec data rate and 192 khz sampling rate values get mixed up before so I wanted to clarify.

(hope I got it right)

-Mike

I was having a brain fart thinking airplay was something like bluetooth (hence the bandwidth question)  ... but the content is directed via wi-fi.

[djdube525]

More info on Spotify premium if anyone is curious to try it out: http://spoti.fi/nrx9Mn

Looks like Spotify is supported on Squeezebox (Radio, Touch), but you need the premium account: http://spoti.fi/zQAJk1

And for Rich... looks like Sonos is supported as well: http://bit.ly/r7wgoY