Grover ICs vs. Reality ICs

[grover]

Hi Bob, here's the links to the photos. http://www.groverhuffman.com/interconnects This is to my web page if you scroll down there's a photo of Steve Hoffmans mastering room when he was using my electronics. The cream black faced unit in the forground is my subminature preamp, behind by the speakers are my gold faced 130 watt monoblocks. If you click the photo you can view it very clearly. This next photo is from a manufacturer that visited Steve's mastering room, and is another closer photo of my amps. Here's this link http://www.symposiumusa.com/MonRoom1.html

[hometheaterdoc]

hometheaterdoc come on everything can improve even the JPS, if they were my cables I'd work to change them immediately, I like Bings voice Baritone.

I have no doubt that the JPS SC3 models can be improved upon.  For now, it's called Aluminata  I have no doubt that at some point in the future, there will be a SuperConductor 4 line of cables..  Will it be next week?  Next month?  Will JPS release 5 versions in a 6 month span?  Not likely.  

I applaud your dedication to improve your product and your quest to provide top shelf performance at a budget price.  I'd love to get the kind of performance and sound I get from JPS at a more affordable price.   My empty wallet would like a bit of a kickback.  I think your speaker cables took a big step in the right direction with the version we heard at Carl's, which has since been changed again.  My only interest in all of this was to understand what you were hearing at your place in your system to get a better handle on why I was hearing something very different on this end.  It was not meant to be critical of you or your product, although it seems to have come out that way.  My apologies for that.

[grover]

No worries hometheaterdoc, I liked my speaker cable much more than yours, and also those with me. You could already save your clients a fortune by using mine. Of course you won't though. I have the flexibility to change any time I find a better formula, you don't. As a result I'll continuously improve you won't. You should hear my new Sx with out the Teflon it'll knock you on back. It's that much better. And I let my customers upgrade for a pittance, how about JPS?

[richidoo]

Of course you won't though.

moderator: This is a civil discussion and an important one. Lets not stick out tongues and incite chaos now just when it's getting interesting. We are all friends and we are only talking about audio wire. Nobody's mother has been impugned.

richidoo: One thing that is  interesting to me is the consistency of the opinions of Grovers recent wires when compared to JPS in several systems over time. That can't be ignored. I think that is the basis of Shanes question about potential hearing acuity and/or system EQ anomolies. But system EQ variance does not explain why Grover sounds a little tilted up here in NC and OK in CA, while JPS sounds tilted up in CA and OK here. So there is a logical puzzle there.

[mdconnelly]

... does not explain why Grover sounds a little tilted up here in NC and OK in CA, while JPS sounds tilted up in CA and OK here. So there is a logical puzzle there.

Oh great... now geography plays into it as well!   There's no telling what these cables would sound like where Shep lives!   

Seriously tho, we all need to chill - room, components, ears, cables, weather, etc... they all make a difference.  What I love about this hobby is that not only am I seeking to improve my musical environment, I'm also learning to listen better - and AN and its many contributors have helped immensely with that.

[richidoo]

Excellent points Mike. Thanks!

[Fleschler]

I am one of Grover’s friends who auditioned the JPS speaker and IC wires.
I am the archival transfer and (sometimes recording) engineer for a local Los Angeles symphony (LAJS) and have a large record and CD collection (39,000 LPs, 78s and CDs).   I have several audio systems at home (in different rooms) and have been listening to high end gear for decades.

We spent several hours comparing wires and it was easy to tell which was musically more enjoyable.  The JPS speaker wire was worse in many respects.  It lacked resolution/blurry, has subdued mid-bass/non-linear and sounded bloated.  It was not just the lack of timbral accuracy on the Crosby recording, but a lack of music timing.  Less involving despite the peakier highs.  The Searchers literally lost their high vocalist in the mix, the harmonic structure was constricted.   Sinatra, Torme, Crosby and Dean Martin lost their manliness, the important foundation of the their voices.   

Add to the musically inferior music/sound quality of the JPS their terrible coat hanger-like physical structure and it is one wire I would never use in my system. 

The JPS IC was not as bad as the speaker wire but exhibited similar traits.  Grover’s IC with the older teflon dielectric was clearly superior which I happen to use in my best hi-fi system.  On my EAR system (864 pre-amp, 890 amp, acute CD, and 324 phono) , his wire brought out the best sound yet.  It maybe that the JPS wires are system dependent, whereas Grover’s IC, A/C cable and speaker wire are not system dependent.   I prefer to relax while getting the best sound out of my system sonically and musically.   The JPS wires are just less involving and of lower fidelity.

[grover]

Of course you won't though.

moderator: This is a civil discussion and an important one. Lets not stick out tongues and incite chaos now just when it's getting interesting. We are all friends and we are only talking about audio wire. Nobody's mother has been impugned.

I wasn't sticking out my tongue, I'm speaking economically. There's much more profit in multi-thousand dollar cable, than $200 cable. Nothing personal business is business.

[richidoo]

Thanks for clarifying Grover.

Welcome to AN Fleschler. Your opinion is much appreciated.

[mdconnelly]

... The JPS wires are just less involving and of lower fidelity.

Fleschler, thank you for the post... but, Wow.  That's a different take from my experience.  While Grover and JPS have different strengths and presentations (and I use both), my experience with the JPS cables has never shown them to be lacking resolution or uninvolving... just the opposite - quite musically engaging in fact.  Yes, JPS does carry a much bigger price tag, but for many, it's worth the price of admission.

I have not yet listened to Grover's latest cables, but in my system with the older Grover ICs, the JPS are the more relaxed cables while the Grovers heighten clarity and detail.   But there is no right nor wrong here - it all just reinforces how different cables affect different systems, recordings, rooms and ears. 

[Carlman]

I have several audio systems at home (in different rooms) and have been listening to high end gear for decades.

We spent several hours comparing wires and it was easy to tell which was musically more enjoyable.  The JPS speaker wire was worse in many respects. 

Did you try this in your systems scattered about your home or were the tests done on Grover's system?

I think Grover's speaker cables have great bass impact.  If the speakers roll off the highs, I could see how his wires would sound great.. and would have a negative impact on the imaging magic that the SC3's do.

-C

[Carlman]

Hi Bob, here's the links to the photos. http://www.groverhuffman.com/interconnects This is to my web page if you scroll down there's a photo of Steve Hoffmans mastering room when he was using my electronics.

So, his mastering room is a 10'x10' bedroom with a mirror on the left and a bookshelf on the right with no room treatments? 

Is this like a 2nd system that he just plays for fun between mastering with headphones or something?

[grover]

Yep that's his room, he listens quietly and doesn't need that stuff. If you were there with him you'd see. I also think most of that peripheral stuff is to help deficient sound. Just as I see it. I haven't see his room for years though. He's a mastering engineer, he's interested primarily in getting the sound linear. He also has a listening room and another two systems in his down stairs. He listens on all the systems as he works.

[richidoo]

Grover, were you guys comparing the JPS wires to your latest anti-teflon recipe or to SX? Maybe there is a quantum leap there that we have not yet heard.  Thanks

[grover]

Both Rich. I agree with Carl the JPS is marvelous in the highs. But the mid range smear and weak mid bass rendered the cables less satisfying. Especially with male voices. My new non Teflon IC's are now very extended in both extremes. I'll be experimenting with aluminum in the speaker cables soon, that'll be very interesting.