AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Topic started by: StereoNut on January 10, 2013, 09:31:38 AM
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12B4A Variable Gain Pre-amp (V.G.P.) that is! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Gary just e-mailed me pix of his first official 12B4A Production Model Pre-amp (Serial#1) that will soon be MINE!
Like I said to Gary... "If it sounds as good as it looks, I will be one very happy boy!"
I will post listening impressions once I get my Moscode 600 amp back to run my Dodd pre through. George Kaye called me yesterday to tell me it's finally finished. He's just has to e-mail me an invoice and I will mail out his check. Hopefully, the amp will be back in the house some time within the next week or so.
T.B.C.
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Looking good Ollie. Have one with balanced connections coming my way as well.
Would like to compare the 6H30 version to the 12B4A model. One of Dodds customers is sending me one to try with Arions. They like the SS version Arion with this 12B4 pre in balanced mode.
We shall find out.
charles
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Charles
We'll have to set something up to compare the two Dodds. I wonder how much they will sound the same or differ from each other.
Right now, I just need to get my Moscode 600 back and listen to it with my current (Naim) pre to get a "baseline" on what the improvements are to my amp, before I introduce the new Dodd V.G.P. pre-amp into my system.
Time will tell!
Bill
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So this preamp has Sonicaps and is bypassed with teflon.
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So this preamp has Sonicaps and is bypassed with teflon.
Looks like Sonicap Platinum bypass caps... Right?
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So when do you get it?
If the Moscode is going to take a while, have the preamp shipped to my house, I will burn it in for you :thumb:
No charge of course :rofl:
oh..wait it does need a charge
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So this preamp has Sonicaps and is bypassed with teflon.
Looks like Sonicap Platinum bypass caps... Right?
Exactly! :)
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So when do you get it?
If the Moscode is going to take a while, have the preamp shipped to my house, I will burn it in for you :thumb:
No charge of course :rofl:
oh..wait it does need a charge
Thanks, Mike. You are too kind! :rofl:
Actually, the Moscode shipped out today too!!! :drool:
Next week is gonna be crazy here!
SN
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Enjoy
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Very nice, Bill! Look forward to hearing your new system.
Btw, mine has been out of commission; hope to have it back up next week.
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Very nice, Bill! Look forward to hearing your new system.
Btw, mine has been out of commission; hope to have it back up next week.
Thanks, Rob! :thumb: BTW - What happened to your system? :(
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Nice Bill....good luck !! :beer:
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Nice Bill....good luck !! :beer:
Thanks, Wolfie! :thumb:
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Enjoy
Thanks, Mike! :thumb:
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So this preamp has Sonicaps and is bypassed with teflon.
Looks like Sonicap Platinum bypass caps... Right?
Exactly! :)
For additional money Gary Will install any cap you want. The 6H30 version we have uses Mundorf SIO.
The whole idea of using a battery and charger frankly was new to me. A piece of cake. Battery is charged in a few hours and so far has given me 8 hours of music. The battery has a very small footprint easily hidden for the Wife factor. The Umbilical cord is long enough to keep battery away.
So every night after listening ya grab the clips attach to battery and plug in the charger. Could not be easier.
So far the dynamics of the 6H30 are not what I expected. Its better than expectations.
With only about 50 hours of time tonality is constantly changing. The sound stage as well. The width is VG Depth and height are MIA so far. Bass is really deep but not tight yet. SIO caps in my experience take 400 hours to sound their best. On 5 hours off 5 hours for dielectrics to settle. Gonna take some time.
As of last night I hated it, that's right hated it. Harsh, shouty, hi fi sounding. However just the opposite the day before. Loved it. Oye !!
The break in period sucks but pays off in spades. If one is patient. All to many times has have I've seen my friends give up on a piece before it really breaks in. Or just give it a quick listen. IMO that five minute or 30 second evaluation is self defeating. Gary mentioned that around 50 hours I would absolutely hate it. He was spot on. Today after another 10 hours of play, better. Much better. The top settled a bit, the bass still not tight which is usually the last part to come along.
Time will tell however I think this is a keeper, the jury is still out.
It is educational and interesting to listen at each stage of time. If your lucky you will actually hear the change occur. The sonics will be questionable then all of a sudden it is not, so cool when that happens.
charles
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Rollo---excuse me---BILL (inside joke going back to college, guys! :lol: ),
I don't know if I am more impressed with the electronics or the wood appearance! Looks great; maybe in my fading years I will go back to the (tube) technology of my youth....
Let me know how it sounds.
DZ
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Rollo---excuse me---BILL (inside joke going back to college, guys! :lol: ),
I don't know if I am more impressed with the electronics or the wood appearance! Looks great; maybe in my fading years I will go back to the (tube) technology of my youth....
Let me know how it sounds.
DZ
She sure does look purty! :yay2:
Considering I've been running SS (solid state) electronics for my whole life, this tubed Dodd pre and my "soon to be back home" hybrid (Moscode/Tube) amp will become the basis of an "audio renaissance" for me. Hopefully, the great God of Synergy will be kind and I will enjoy this new gear for many, many years to come! [-o<
I will keep you and everyone else here on AN posted as things come together and I get everything played through their brake-in period. Gary Dodd says to expect a 200-300 hours of run-in time before those Platinum caps settle in. :duh
In the immortal words of Todd Rundgren... "the waiting is the hardest part!" :roll:
T.B.C.
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In my experience with Mundorf SIO , it started out great, truly wondrous but after break in I had to remove them, they bothered me, and I guess it may be because they are not a true foil cap but a sputtered metalized cap. I know the Auricap, which I like is sputtered or metalized as they say, as well, but I like it better as a general non boutique cap. In other words a nice cap. Boutique caps tend to have a specific sound, and you have to be careful with them. Can you get better than Auricap? Sure, but be careful which way you go because you may go in the wrong direction.
Bill if you don't have your amps soon you might as well stop by and i will lend you an amp. Don't let George Kaye push you around yell at him, and if he gives you a hard time I know others that were involved with NYAL that can get it done.
For Christ;'s sake it is just a cap job, could be done in 2 hours the most, don't let him give you a yarn.
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... Bill if you don't have your amps soon you might as well stop by and i will lend you an amp. Don't let George Kaye push you around yell at him, and if he gives you a hard time I know others that were involved with NYAL that can get it done. For Christ;'s sake it is just a cap job, could be done in 2 hours the most, don't let him give you a yarn.
Actually, Mike. My amp is done. Hoo-Ray!!! I sent an overnight UPS letter-pak to George with my check $$$ today. He will get my payment on Monday (1/14) and ship it out to me. UPS Ground is usually 3 days, so I figure it will be here this coming Thursday or Friday.
Regardless, thanks for your support.
BTW - For all of those who are interested, here's what was done on the NYAL Moscode 600 for me.
1) M600 (MIT) MultiCap capacitor set installed
2) Fan Circuit power resistors were relocated away from the thermostat
3) High Voltage capacitors (2 large, 3 small) replaced
4) IEC connector installed with hum loop breaker circuit
5) Tube replacement: (4) 6GU7's tested, matched & installed
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Were the electrolytics replaced?
Looks like you have a bunch of burn in to do, get a cheap cd player and just leave it on repeat for a few days.
Does your preamp recharge automatically? Or do you have the option to use a AC power cord on it?
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Were the electrolytics replaced?
Looks like you have a bunch of burn in to do, get a cheap cd player and just leave it on repeat for a few days.
Does your preamp recharge automatically? Or do you have the option to use a AC power cord on it?
Re: Electrolytics - I have no idea! :roll: Besides, I wouldn't know what an electrolytic was if it jumped up and bit me! :rofl:
The Dodd pre recharges automatically, once it's turned off. No direct AC connection is available purposely, by design.
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Re: Electrolytics - I have no idea! :roll: Besides, I wouldn't know what an electrolytic was if it jumped up and bit me! :rofl:
OK Bill, you asked for it!
Electrolytic capacitors are the can type, usually with 2 leads coming out of one end. They usually have a liquid electrolyte inside, hence the name. Over time and due to internal heat the electrolyte wears out, and the cap can start to swell and leak. If the goo hits something hot, it smokes and stinks - This is the classic "letting the blue smoke" out joke. That dimple around the waist of an electrolytic gives it away, that seals in the goo. Films don't have a dimple.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Capacitors_electrolytic.jpg) Electrolytic Caps
The opposite is a film capacitor which is dry inside, no electrolyte, just layers of conductor and thin insulator wound together. It is much larger for equal capacitance, and less susceptible to change in capacitance and ESR over time, lower leakage current makes them sound better, but they usually cost a lot more.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Wiki-Folkos-P1090317-1.jpg/320px-Wiki-Folkos-P1090317-1.jpg) (http://www.soniccraft.com/images/GenII.jpg) Film Caps
Note there is no polarity arrow on the films labels. Installing an electrolytic cap backwards makes it overheat and fail, so you will almost always see an arrow stripe on the side of an electro to indicate the negative terminal. Some electros are bipolar however. Films don't care about polarity, (unless you ask an audiophile.) All of the sexy caps people talk about here are film caps. Duelund, VCap, teflon, OIMP, Paper in oil, AudioCap, Multicap, Sonicap, polystyrene, polypropylene, polyester, mica, bypass, coupling caps, output caps, etc. Some mfgs even use film caps in the power supply storage.
When we need values of capacitance that are larger than that available from films, or need it in a smaller package than films can provide or when we need ultra low cost even in small values then we choose electrolytics. In hifi gear, they are usually limited to use in the power supply where large "storage" caps smooth ripple in the DC before hitting the amplifier power rails. This ripple actually causes their eventual demise. In your case it would be the "High Voltage Capacitors" that were replaced. Using electrolytic capacitors in the signal path results in a grainy blurred sound. Consumer gear that has electros in the signal path are prime candidates for upgrade to films.
There are some high quality Japanese electros that sound better than some films. coughcoughsolencough
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In my experience with Mundorf SIO , it started out great, truly wondrous but after break in I had to remove them, they bothered me, and I guess it may be because they are not a true foil cap but a sputtered metalized cap. I know the Auricap, which I like is sputtered or metalized as they say, as well, but I like it better as a general non boutique cap. In other words a nice cap. Boutique caps tend to have a specific sound, and you have to be careful with them. Can you get better than Auricap? Sure, but be careful which way you go because you may go in the wrong direction.
Bill if you don't have your amps soon you might as well stop by and i will lend you an amp. Don't let George Kaye push you around yell at him, and if he gives you a hard time I know others that were involved with NYAL that can get it done.
For Christ;'s sake it is just a cap job, could be done in 2 hours the most, don't let him give you a yarn.
Just curious about how many hours you put on them before surgical removal Speedy Gonzalez ?
charles
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I had the Mundorfs in for about 4 months.
If they need more than 4 months I have to move on because i am old and life is short.
The Vcaps copperfoil teflons were much better, right out of the box ...and stayed that way
Besides I am not alone in this camp, there are lots of people in the DIY world that have experienced what I have.
Sometimes you have to get past the hype and just be honest.
I was honest, I bought them, installed them, used them, and removed them. And learned alot along the way.
It was great in the beginning, but in the end they bothered me. I wanted them to work, they were not cheap, but who was I foolin?
Mike
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My Dodd VGP is "in da house!" Package came yesterday. Thanks, Gary! :thumb:
It's an absolutely beautiful piece. I can't wait to get a listen to it. :drool:
Hopefully my Moscode 600 will be here before the end of this coming week.
T.B.C.
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My Dodd VGP is "in da house!"
I don't believe you. ;)
:pics?:
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My Dodd VGP is "in da house!"
I don't believe you. ;)
:pics?:
Uhhhmmmnnn, Rich.... Did you miss page#1, Post#1? :shock:
The pix in the original thread starter are MY Dodd pre. Gary Dodd sent me pix before he packed and shipped it, so I could drool while waiting for it to arrive.
She sure is purty, ain't she?!? :thumb:
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I'm eager to hear your impressions. I've been running a Dodd pre with Moscode amps ( the 300 and the 401HR) happily for several years. I've been please with the combo.
Scott
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No I didn't notice those. Often I browse without logging in, so the pics are not visible. It looks great! Thanks
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I'm eager to hear your impressions. I've been running a Dodd pre with Moscode amps ( the 300 and the 401HR) happily for several years. I've been please with the combo.
Scott
Cool, Scott! I didn't know you were running a similar set-up. Now I'm even more anxious to get my Moscode 600 back this week! I will keep everyone posted.
SN
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I had the Mundorfs in for about 4 months.
If they need more than 4 months I have to move on because i am old and life is short.
The Vcaps copperfoil teflons were much better, right out of the box ...and stayed that way
Besides I am not alone in this camp, there are lots of people in the DIY world that have experienced what I have.
Sometimes you have to get past the hype and just be honest.
I was honest, I bought them, installed them, used them, and removed them. And learned alot along the way.
It was great in the beginning, but in the end they bothered me. I wanted them to work, they were not cheap, but who was I foolin?
Mike
So 120 days at say 3 hours a day ? Say 350 hours would be close.
These caps were chosen by Dodd over the Solens so that is why they are in there. Dodd likes the synergy of the Mundorf with the other parts in his preamp., especially the Harmonix 6H30 tube combo. A complete design not just a"cap" of the day choice.
The V-cap TIO teflons took nearly 1000 hours to sound right in the Cyber 211 mod. All the cap shootouts claim the same for the V-cap. I am surprised as to your results that they sounded good right away and stayed that way. I believe you are alone in your experience, puzzling. Even the manf. suggests 400 hours.
BTW what character did you experience ? Soft ? warm ? Bright ? tilted up ? Your opinion is appreciated so we all can learn, thanks.
charles
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My Dodd VGP is "in da house!" Package came yesterday. Thanks, Gary! :thumb:
It's an absolutely beautiful piece. I can't wait to get a listen to it. :drool:
Hopefully my Moscode 600 will be here before the end of this coming week.
T.B.C.
Hip hip hooray, three cheers. Now Kaye is the culprit. I hope the Moscode works.
charles
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My Dodd VGP is "in da house!" Package came yesterday. Thanks, Gary! :thumb:
It's an absolutely beautiful piece. I can't wait to get a listen to it. :drool:
Hopefully my Moscode 600 will be here before the end of this coming week.
T.B.C.
Hip hip hooray, three cheers. Now Kaye is the culprit. I hope the Moscode works.
charles
"Hope it works"...??? After waiting for 4 whole months, it better SING!!!
SN
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Hip hip hooray, three cheers. Now Kaye is the culprit. I hope the Moscode works.
charles
I posted this on the old "Hybrid vs. Mix 'n Match?" thread, but thought it would be worth copying over to here as well.
This just "in" from UPS!!!
(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/Laie_13.gif)(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/Laie_13.gif)(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/Laie_13.gif)
Scheduled Delivery Date: Wednesday, 01/16/2013
If the scheduled delivery needs to be changed, select the Tracking Number below or log on to ups.com to request a delivery change from the tracking detail.
Shipper: KAYE AUDIO INC
Delivery Commitment: by End of Day
UPS Service: UPS Ground
After 4 months and 1 day, my Moscode 600 is finally on it's way home!
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-excited001.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) Woo-Hoo!!! (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-excited001.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
SN
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JzdLYUVCbQc/TsZrJApPSQI/AAAAAAAAEuc/xoiB1-Tnjig/s400/AnnieSandyTOMORROW.jpg)
Tomorrow, Tomorrow, I love you, Tomorrow!
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JzdLYUVCbQc/TsZrJApPSQI/AAAAAAAAEuc/xoiB1-Tnjig/s400/AnnieSandyTOMORROW.jpg)
Tomorrow, Tomorrow, I love you, Tomorrow!
You are too funny, Rich!!! :lol:
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Well, well whats up there Curley ? How is the first born doing ? Does it like its companion the Moscode ? Is it a cutie pie or ugly duckling ?
charles
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Well, well whats up there Curley ? How is the first born doing ? Does it like its companion the Moscode ? Is it a cutie pie or ugly duckling ?
charles
Considering I have two threads running simultaneously (the Dodd and my Moscode) I'm going to start up a new topic with my new system's developments as they happen.
I think it will keep things simpler that way.
SN
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I have now started a new thread with comments about BOTH the Dodd VGP Pre-amp and the NYAL Moscode 600 Amp.
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=4410.msg57894;topicseen#msg57894 (http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=4410.msg57894;topicseen#msg57894)
I hope this new thread begins to answer a few questions for everyone.
SN
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Well Mr. Bill the variable gain pre is no longer available due to part availability.
It has been replaced by the 6H30 version which can use any 6DJ8 as well.
You know own a very desireable pre. The part no longer available will NOT affect your pre as it should never go bad.
charles
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Well Mr. Bill the variable gain pre is no longer available due to part availability.
It has been replaced by the 6H30 version which can use any 6DJ8 as well.
You know own a very desireable pre. The part no longer available will NOT affect your pre as it should never go bad.
charles
Your lips to God's ears, Charles!!! :rofl:
I'm sure we'll be fine for a long time down the road with my pre. It's nice to know that it's now something of a "collectable or rarity", but until Gary builds something so outrageously better than what I have now, it's not going anywhere! I'm really loving the sound of my Dodd VGP and it's synergy with the rest of my system.
Gary (if you're reading along...???) Kudos to you again for such a wonderful product. :thumb:
Bill
(SN)
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Dodd does seem to have a very high batting average. No strike outs yet.
charles