TNT Big Fun Boxes

[miklorsmith]

Rich and Jim have their cool single driver stuff they're doing - this is way less so.  But, it's a great starting point and the cost is really cheap.

This is where it all started for me, to have something I could use with a Clari-T I had to buy.  Here's the original recipe:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/bfb_e.html

As a starting point, Google tells me 45 liters = 1.6 cubic feet, or about 2,765 cubic inches which translates to a 14" cube.  Of course, don't build a cube but that gives an idea.

I think they are most un-boxy sounding and tremendously dynamic.  They aren't the last word in sparkle or subterranean bass but they are surprisingly adept at both ends and are not outclassed in my Altmann/Lamm/RWA setup.

I built mine with a slanted front baffle which was a pain to build but works great to utilize floor reinforcement in the bass and still "aim" the driver at the listener.

They are ugly critters but solid as a tank.  I stuffed the box around the driver to further minimize back wave energy.  I have speaker wires soldered directly to the driver, so it's amp-direct - no interceding anything.

Let's say I have the utmost respect for real cabinet guys.

This photo shows with the Fostex 206E which was recently replaced by a used, first-gen Omega driver.  I picked mine up used.  I asked Louis a while back if I could buy some from him, but he said the drivers were OEM only.  So, I'm not sure what the best driver option would be.  That would be a beneficial direction for this thread to take.

Anybody interested in the single driver idea wanting to try it out, I wholly recommend this as a starting point.  In fact, that's exactly what I did with these very boxes.  These speakers changed everything for me.  Since building these, I abandoned my previous direction.  What these do well, namely micro- and macrodynamics, big time instrumental tone, and coherency are the stuff music is made of.

A sheet of mdf or plywood, a little sweat equity and a pair of drivers and that's it - they punch WAY above their price class.

A while back, when the Fostex drivers were in the system, I did a little experiment with these and the Definition Pros.  I took the main cable leads off the front arrays of Defs and hooked them to the Yamamoto and these guys.  I left the 500 watts and 8 - 10" subs connected, adjusted levels, and ya know what?  They blended pretty freakin' well.  The subs were EQ'd to the room so obviously that had a big part in it.

I'm using these as my main speakers right now in place of the Pros which were sold last w/e.  That was tough.  Anyway, these with their paper drivers and higher efficiency are great stand-ins and are more similar than different, which I suppose is a tribute to these AND the Pro's.   

They aren't outclassed by the electronics at all, in fact they really let the character of them shine through (listening, Rollo?).  I'd guess the total system budget allocated in this rig to the speakers at 2%.  Really.

[richidoo]

Awesome Mike!
I concur with you about the joy of paper single driver speakers with a halfway decent bass reinforcement really is satisfying to listen to. I still have the Legacys hooked up and ready, but ironically they get much less play with the little buggers set up next to them. Music plays effortlessly and so satisfying, despite less sparkle and grumble at the ends.

I am so please to see the warts and personal touches on your speakers. Especially from a confessed Zu fanatic with 200 automotive colors to choose. Right now mine look like ready for Arch digest cover, but they need tweaking and could use a few more screws showing to fix some of that.

The golfball phaser is a great idea. A little dimple diffusion right at the source! haha I have been emailing with another Feastrex nut about modding the bottom so it will lean and point the treble laser up toward the ears, I see you have that feature already! I also like the idea of soldering leads direct. I have fancy schmancy screw down wire clamps on the drivers, but they look and feel ferrous, which is a BIG nono, I hope they are just plated brass, but even so, solder direct is the way to go. You just tie back the leads to prevent tinsel slap?

Congrats on moving the DefPros. Did you cry as they drove away? I'm having major separation anxiety as I consider upgrading the Legacys, or going deep into crazyland with DIY - OB, with the Feastrex as wide band mids.

Thanks for sharing - very cool! 
Rich

[miklorsmith]

Sonically, I'd love to move these into the living room and dump my VMPS 626rs, but aesthetically it's no dice.  I'm going to see if Omega has any "deals" sitting around in the warehouse.  Funny, I've been pumping Omega for a few years and I've never even heard one!  Talk about talkin' out your ass.

Yah, very tough moving the Pros.  I have never had one moment of wanting to get rid of them and I must have said to myself a hundred times "I can't believe I'm selling these.  I can't believe I'm packing them.  I can't believe I'm driving to meet a guy to trade them for useless money." 

They really take the single driver ideal and build around that as core to their design philosophy.  Of course, this is exactly what I wanted but as we know these things don't always work as advertised or planned.    

There are many ways to execute the wideband thing, for sure.

[richidoo]

Don't forget about veneer! $50 and a lot of swearing and sanding could make them look almost wifely. haha.

I gotta hear the Zu's again. 1st time on Druids at RMAF 06 was not so good, but I retain an open mind, mostly due to your comments, and Srajen's. I should contact Zu to find some local Zuzers to hear Def properly set up and amped.

Soon you will be rewarded with your hyper Defs. Any plans to review those in 6 moons? Your reviews are great.

[miklorsmith]

Any plans to review those in 6 moons? Your reviews are great.

But I have so few.     Thanks though.  Stay tuned for the RWA 70 to 70.2 Sig. upgrade - that one is getting close.

I may or may not review the 2s.  I have a few things upcoming that need to be taken care of and I'm guessing the speaker review would be a ways out.  To further complicate, it would demand a lot of space/time.  It's amazing how much time it takes to write something decent.  But, in my mind Zu doesn't get nearly enough attention and I might have to suck it up.

All the reports, including from Zu themselves, is that they haven't figured out their show sound yet.  At RMAF '07, I think the only speakers they had playing were the Defs playing live music in an auditorium.

I can understand why the Defs wouldn't work in a hotel room - they need more space than that.  The Druids should be OK in a smaller space.  You'd think Zu would have the electronics dialed for their speakers but maybe the latest RMAF is a concession of sorts that they don't "show" well.  Who knows?

I think the Druids are phenomenal with the right setup.  If you find an owner who loves his, I'd give them a whirl.  You'll be surprised how much they can do.

If planning to hear the Def's, IMO the Pro's are considerably better than the 1.5's though the latter could still be outstanding in the right room.  The quality with the Pros is dependent on amplification, not just on the mains but also on the subs.  I never found an audiophile-type amp that could drive the subs at all.  The Crown is smokin' and will be featured in the *new* rig as well.

I'm no woodworker.  I can't imagine I could do even a halfway decent job of veneering.  I'm satisfied with the speaks as they are, actually it gives me a jolt that they look so crappy and sound so good. 

[richidoo]

I'm satisfied with the speaks as they are, actually it gives me a jolt that they look so crappy and sound so good. 

That's cool. I bet your wife digs them too, she's just not wanting to encourage your inner woodworker to come out again... haha 

I hope you decide to review the new monsters.
Rich

[miklorsmith]

At the very least I'll take pictures for here and post some notes.

[rollo]

   Hey man good job.  So your not a cabinet maker. Big deal, no worry turn the lights down and all is beautiful. Its like that girl at the bar around closing time as the lights dim she looks better and better. Then you wake up the next day to the beast of all times. Kidding aside single driver speakers offer yet another perspective of the illusion were chasing. 
      Actually I have been toying with going for the Cain & Cain "Wall of Sound" speakers since I heard them at a Cain & Cain dealers home. Simply just magnificent in every respect. Instruments like horns, piano,violin through the Cains were lifelike in tonality and harmonic structure. The natural decay of the piano was presented in a way that just took me away. Hard to forget.  I have a pair of Omega Speakers which Lou gave me with a 4" Fostex driver. These little guys are intoxicating with an SET amp. These are one of Omegas early models. His new stuff is quite good and worth a listen if your so inclined.  Not the scale of the pipedreams or the frequency response at the extremes but man o man the midrange and wholeness of sound just continues to amaze me. If you listen to allot of vocals, Jazz and classical your in for a treat. If your into rock, Hip Hop, Techno look elsewhere.
      To date what has steered me away from most single driver speakers was the beaming of the high freq. Probably the Whizzer cone of the Louthers. The Omegas and the Cains are different though, they don't beam at ya. The Cains truely present a wall of sound with bass that will surprise even the subwoofer crowd [ me included]. At my age a tweeter that reaches 20,000hz dosn't matter I can't hear it anyway.
     The nevosa is brewing, here we go again. It took me so long to get over the Maggies for the Pipedreams.  I kept them just in case. I just can't keep doing this but then again its not over until its over. In the mean time lets just enjoy the music.


rollo
 
       
       

[KCI-JohnP]

Its like that girl at the bar around closing time as the lights dim she looks better and better. Then you wake up the next day to the beast of all times.

  Man haven't we all been there!! 

Those speakers look cool! I'll soon be receiving my first set of single driver speakers and though they are
no where near the quality/size of those babies I'm still pretty excited about it. They are the little Zigman Hornets they reviewed at 6moons a while back, I even bought the little digital amp they recommended! I plan to put them in my office to listen to while I solder away!!

John

[miklorsmith]

Funny, compared to the Zu Definitions they replaced (for another 5 days) I keep thinking how small they are.     They sound quite a bit smaller too but really retain the core values which is very cool.

I'll be very interested to read your thoughts on the little hornies.  All the pub about them has been very good and my feeling is that even single drivers that are not ideally executed can really make a person think.

That was the case with these boxes when I first built them with the Fostex 206Es.  Those drivers were meant for horns and not ideally suited to BR loading.  But, they did things I'd never heard and I literally sold the conventional speakers I had at the time within a week of having them completed.  The Omega drivers are optimized for BR loading and the speaker is much more balanced and listenable now.

I bet you're going to like the Zigmahornets much more than their diminutive price or size would indicate. 

If anybody has a cool project they'd like to do with my broken in 206Es, I'd donate them to the cause for the price of shipping to you.  The only prerequisite would be a few photos and writeup of their new home.