AudioNervosa
Specialists => Audiologists => Topic started by: dflee on June 04, 2022, 06:33:53 PM
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I tried to do this a while back and just tried again with miserable consequences.
I have my television hooked up to the preamp via rca analog outputs. I want to improve the sound and have been told that going to an external DAC via the toslink would be a superior change. Problem is I can't figure out why when using the toslink out of the Bravia model KDL 52W5100 to the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC all I get sounds like a helicopter. I've gone through every setting for the Sony and there isn't one addressing the Toslink output. Anybody got an idea on how I'm screwing this up?
Don
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Have you tried the different output types in the audio settings menu?
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I am listening to my Sony KD-85X85J through an Auralic Vega via glass Toslink with no problems.
Do you have any display indicating that you have a signal lock at 48 KHz. Some TVs toslink output is poorly clocked which means that there maybe an unacceptable amount jitter in the signal. Many DACs will not lock on to a signal if the jitter exceeds a certain threshold. If this is the problem, then re-clocking the toslink signal
before it gets to your DAC might be a solution.
Scotty
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Check in the TV to make sure that it is outputting a 2.0 stereo signal and not sending some kind of suround sound signal out of the digital port
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If you are using a cable box or satellite receiver, check those menu settings- the digital out might be turned off in one of the menu settings. If nothing is going to the TV, it might make the sound you describe.
I found this, though you may have already been this route.
https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/televisions-projectors-lcd-tvs/kdl-52w5100/articles/00027069
I’d check the box though; it may not default to digital out, or it may need to be selected in some way. And, as Tom said, make sure it’s set to PCM, or stereo, or 2- channel- I believe the MF would look at a multichannel signal and say WTF.
Good luck.
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Also try a different HDMI input on the TV if you haven’t done so already- the HDMI cable is likely the digital signal carrier.
Along this line of thinking, check if there’s an HDMI setting in the cable box menu, and make sure it’s outputting the desired signal.
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Most sets nowadays have a menu selection labeled Sound,Audio output, buried in the settings menu. My TV has two choices PCM output and Dolby Digital Plus output. You should choose PCM output. This may solve the problem. No guarantees.
Good luck.
Scotty
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Messed around with things last night. Tried again with no luck from tele to dac so I switched the feed to the cable box. I have been told that doing it that way could have sync problems with video but I just wanted to see if I got anything. Got the same sound. So now I'm thinkin maybe the dac section is screwed up. Took the Mytek Liberty from the office and plugged in tele to Liberty to pre. SAME THING!!! Didn't go cable box to Liberty cause I just gave up at that point. Ordered a new Toslink today cause that's about the only thing I can think of.
Will let ya know in a couple a days.
Anybody heard of a toslink messing up like that?
Scotty: how does one reclock a toslink?
Don
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I wish I could say for sure that re-clocking the toslink data from the TV would solve the problem.
At this point there is no way to know if in fact that this is source of the problem.
Wyred4sound makes the only toslink re-clocker that I know of at this time and its not inexpensive at
$399. https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/remedy-reclocker
Hopefully you could explain the problem you have to the dealer and in the event that this wasn't the
solution you could return it for a refund.
Here's the dealer locator page. There appear to be three U.S. dealers.
https://wyred4sound.com/dealer-locator
If you had access to even the cheapest home theater receiver with a toslink input you could see if your TV functioned with it. At this point we don't have a piece of gear to confirm that the toslink output is functional at all other than seeing a red light at the end of the cable from the toslink output.
Scotty
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Don,
There was a thread at AC about a toslink issue with an AVA dac. Finally the owner took a can of compressed air and blew it into the connector and problem solved. Might be worth a try.
Nick
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Since it’s the same on two different supplies and on two different davs I’m thinking the cable
Is the problem. I’ve had this one for a long time and can’t remember where I got it from.
They’re not expensive so we shall see.
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This just keeps getting screwier.
Connected a new optical cable with the same result.
The Sony KLD-52W5100 manual reads : DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL) Connects to the optical audio input of digital audio equipment that is PCM/Dolby* Digital compatible
The M1 dac reads: 1 TOSLINK optical connector 32-96 kbps (16-24 bit stereo PCM)
What am I missing????? Does the Sony mean it must be both PCM and Dolby or does it mean either or? There is no where in settings on the Sony that will let you pick.
I don't have compressed air but I do have Deoxit D5. Could i use that?
Don
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Deep in the TVs menu is a choice between PCM or Dolby output. Dolby Digital, being a multi-channel format is not compatible with with a DAC looking for a 2 channel PCM output.
You will have to check the owners manual, the trail leading to the option of PCM or Dolby is in there somewhere.
There may be a video on YouTube concerning this subject.
Scotty
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I got the Bravia in 2010 but have just found out it is a 2009 model. After an hour and a half with Sony we figured out that while the KDL-52W5100 does have an optical output, it doesn't have a choice of PCM or Dolby. That means it can only be hooked up to an AV receiver that can split it to either. So, I can either get an AV receiver that has audio out jacks (to go to the pre) and will work with the Bravia, just forget the whole thing or spend big bucks to get a new tele that will work with the dac (PCM). Ain't that some s%&t.
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You’re lucky that you got good tech-support to finally figure out what the issue is. I would just get a new TV and forget about the AV receiver. Let us know what you decide.
Nick
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I got the Bravia in 2010 but have just found out it is a 2009 model. After an hour and a half with Sony we figured out that while the KDL-52W5100 does have an optical output, it doesn't have a choice of PCM or Dolby. That means it can only be hooked up to an AV receiver that can split it to either. So, I can either get an AV receiver that has audio out jacks (to go to the pre) and will work with the Bravia, just forget the whole thing or spend big bucks to get a new tele that will work with the dac (PCM). Ain't that some s%&t.
Ahhhhh... Good to see that you figured it out. FWIW: I personally think that Toslink is THE WORST digital connection option.
Years ago I attended a demonstration showing why. The guy running the emo took a Toslink connection and basically waded it up into a loose ball. Then he played a track and while the track was playing released the ball and objects in the sounstage moved to slightly different positions. Then he swapped out the plastic link to one made from AT&T glass fiber. The AT&T sounded much better and was not subject to the same problem. Light scatter in a Toslink is a big, bad deal. Do you not have another digital output option on the Bravia?
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It figures that at that point in time that not all TVs wouldn't have the option of
a choice between stereo PCM output and multi-channel Dolby Digital output.
I listen to TV via glass fiber toslink running into my DAC and when watching
Blu-ray I switch to another toslink of the same construction running from the Blu-ray
player. Somewhat cumbersome but it works for me.
Scotty
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I paid over three and a half grand for it and picture wise it is great. But every time I look at it now it just makes me feel bad. I got an IFI bluetooth for my wife's Ipad and have it running through the pre and can't believe how well it sounds with her books and music. Just wanted to get better out of the tele. Oh well.
I might see what the audio store I got it from would do for me on a new one and maybe even take the old one in trade.
Don
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I got the Bravia in 2010 but have just found out it is a 2009 model. After an hour and a half with Sony we figured out that while the KDL-52W5100 does have an optical output, it doesn't have a choice of PCM or Dolby. That means it can only be hooked up to an AV receiver that can split it to either. So, I can either get an AV receiver that has audio out jacks (to go to the pre) and will work with the Bravia, just forget the whole thing or spend big bucks to get a new tele that will work with the dac (PCM). Ain't that some s%&t.
Is it possible there is a small standalone device that would have the same capability as an AV receiver?
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I got the Bravia in 2010 but have just found out it is a 2009 model. After an hour and a half with Sony we figured out that while the KDL-52W5100 does have an optical output, it doesn't have a choice of PCM or Dolby. That means it can only be hooked up to an AV receiver that can split it to either. So, I can either get an AV receiver that has audio out jacks (to go to the pre) and will work with the Bravia, just forget the whole thing or spend big bucks to get a new tele that will work with the dac (PCM). Ain't that some s%&t.
Is it possible there is a small standalone device that would have the same capability as an AV receiver?
Maybe this?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G5NQCK7?aaxitk=53f8c84352c44c3bca3814cedb8ed04a&pd_rd_plhdr=t&ref=dacx_dp_581953391062836218_579259607273381754
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Dave:
You are a genius even when your wrong! The item you posted is just an extender. It can take a lot of different signals and extend them but can't separate or change them. BUT, after talking to J-Tech they do have a unit that can take the multiple signal and convert to analog. It has it's own dac internally and I'm not sure how well it works but for 75 bucks I gotta try. It's a JTech-DTOA-D. It has an optical input. I'm not very well versed at understanding specs so if any of you do look this unit up, let me know if it sounds like it's got good innards.
Don
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Don,
I had a hunch you’d be calling J-Tech and following up on this. That would be one heck of an easy solution.
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Dave:
You are a genius even when your wrong! The item you posted is just an extender. It can take a lot of different signals and extend them but can't separate or change them. BUT, after talking to J-Tech they do have a unit that can take the multiple signal and convert to analog. It has it's own dac internally and I'm not sure how well it works but for 75 bucks I gotta try. It's a JTech-DTOA-D. It has an optical input. I'm not very well versed at understanding specs so if any of you do look this unit up, let me know if it sounds like it's got good innards.
Don
l am absolutely stupid about digital outs on TV's, so I just did a search for something that looked right. I'm happy it was a nudge towards a solution! :thumb:
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Don here is my concern with that unit, if it simply takes the optical output and converts it to analog I'm not sure it will solve your problem. What you were running into was that the TV was sending out a multi channel surround sound signal over the optical out and your DAC could only speak 2 channel stereo. If this unit converts the optical into 6 channels of surround (RF. C, LF, RR, LR & SW) I'm not sure if that will be a usable output if you are trying to listen to TV audio using a 2 channel stereo system. One first instinct would be to hook up the left and right front channels to the stereo, but most surround sound mixes route almost all of the on screen dialog to the center channel so is sounds as if it is coming out of the spot (the screen) where you see the people talking. If you only play the left and right front channels through the stereo you will be missing most of the dialog. What you really need is something that can take a 5.1 signal and mix it down to 2 channel stereo so you don't end up missing any of the audio in the surround mix. Hopefully the unit you are looking at is capable of doing a 5.1 to 2.0 conversion. If not I don't think it will be a viable option.
I hope it works out for you.
Tom
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Hey Tom:
Thanks for the input. The tele is only dolby digital and the Jtech unit has only a right and left output.
I just hope the dac is good enough for a decent sound. I really am blown away how well the IFI bluetooth receiver dac sounds with my wife's Ipad. We shall see.
Don
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That's good Don, it looks like that unit will do the 5.1 to 2.0 conversion for you.
I bought one of those iFi Zen Bluetooth units for my son last year and I was very impressed by it as well. The also have an excellent USB DAC in the same line. I know I guy who bought one of them as an upgrade from the $5k PS Audio Perfectwave DAC that he owned. Yeah it's limited in that it only has a single digital input and that is USB, but if you can deal with that (as most of us who use a Roon endpoint can) its pretty amazing that at least one guy thought tat the sub $200 iFi DAC outperformed a $5,000 unit.
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Well, it just keeps gettin better and better.
Got the JTech in today. Hooked up, put on the head phones and good news, bad news.
Does the unit improve the sound, absolutely. Bottom end is better. Quieter, without a doubt. Background noise has diminished by a noticeable amount. BUT the sound has gone down by quite a noticeable amount. The cable box and the IFI Zen receiver is as close to the same as you can get but the JTech unit is quite a bit lower in output. I have to go up say from five o'clock to almost eight o’clock on the dial. Wife hates that. So now gotta figure out where to go next. Get the same volume from the tele as the cable box.
Any suggestions would be great.
Don
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Well, it just keeps gettin better and better.
Got the JTech in today. Hooked up, put on the head phones and good news, bad news.
Does the unit improve the sound, absolutely. Bottom end is better. Quieter, without a doubt. Background noise has diminished by a noticeable amount. BUT the sound has gone down by quite a noticeable amount. The cable box and the IFI Zen receiver is as close to the same as you can get but the JTech unit is quite a bit lower in output. I have to go up say from five o'clock to almost eight o’clock on the dial. Wife hates that. So now gotta figure out where to go next. Get the same volume from the tele as the cable box.
Any suggestions would be great.
Don
Move the knob.
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Don I have the same issue with different inputs that al go through a single HT Rcvr. The DVD player is a different volume level than the cable box . And even within the cable there is a difference in the volume level between watching a show in real time and watching it recorded on the DVR.
Unfortunately I think Dave has the right idea. Get used to moving the knob.
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Well, it just keeps gettin better and better.
Got the JTech in today. Hooked up, put on the head phones and good news, bad news.
Does the unit improve the sound, absolutely. Bottom end is better. Quieter, without a doubt. Background noise has diminished by a noticeable amount. BUT the sound has gone down by quite a noticeable amount. The cable box and the IFI Zen receiver is as close to the same as you can get but the JTech unit is quite a bit lower in output. I have to go up say from five o'clock to almost eight o’clock on :thumb:the dial. Wife hates that. So now gotta figure out where to go next. Get the same volume from the tele as the cable box.
Any suggestions would be great.
Don
Don,
Think of where you started with this and be quite grateful that you have arrived with this good result for $75 or so. AN gave you an inexpensive solution and I would just get used to cranking up that knob just a bit more and enjoying it :thumb: