Synergy

[rollo]

We all have experienced a match made in heaven between certain components or speakers and Amp. What have you found to work well together? Be it a cable and CDP or Amp and speaker or Amp and Pre or tubes and component, etc. A sticky for such combos maybe?


  rollo

[Carlman]

Not a bad idea, Rollo... If you want to take the lead, and take a stab at ones you've heard, go for it...

A couple of years ago I was determined to find the science of synergy...
I focused on this question:  What about this particular amp, speaker cable, and speaker makes synergy?
I then started looking at the wire's properties, the amps properties and the load presented by the speakers... Wow, what an undertaking I'd gotten myself into.  It's over my head because I simply don't have the background in electronics to undetake it.  Plus, with my cursory knowledge, some combos defied my slightly-educated predictions... So, I went back to trial and error... so crude, I thought... But now that I hear the room so much in other systems, I realize there's more to synergy than gear.

So, I'd be interested in seeing a list of synergistic systems... But please be sure to include the room attributes (size and treatments) when listing synergistic matches.

Good luck.

-Carl

[richidoo]

Timely topic especially with the G2G thread talking about Timepieces and preferred amps. One assumes most amps will work "at least OK," but as you get into the high end, slight mismatch can really have a big effect.

A super combination is Acoustic Zen Adagio with Response Audio 100wpc monoblocks, even in hotel room. Awesome.

Another great combo was Quad 2805 with Cayin 70 watt Kt-88 integrated. In a smallish well damped room. Stunning clarity, tone and weight that penetrates right through my body.

[shep]

Great idea! My first experience of this was hearing Maggies with Audio Research (transistors). I broke down and bought them on the spot! Nothing else worked as well on the Maggies afterwards. it made no sense because looking back, the AR amps were nothing special, even for the time. My recent example is more telling and I'm much better "informed"; the TL speakers I own, single core spkr wire, and the T-amp. My Marantz cdp is no slouch either. I sometimes wonder though if the experience of synergy isn't more about a listening moment than the equipt. mating. But, if it's constantly repeatable then yes, the sum of the bits becomes greater than their individual qualities. I doubt if anyone well ever figure this out and it's probably just as well!

[rollo]

Well to start off I'll begin with;
        1. Maggies and Audio Research.  Tara Cables
        2. Classe DR25 [ older Classe ] and B&W. MIT cables
        3. McIntosh and B&W.
        4. Snell and Sonic Frontiers. MIT cables
        5. Pipedreams and VAC. Omega Micro active
        6. Vanderstien 5A and Carey 805. Kimber cables
        7. Sonus Faber and Krell KSA 100. Straight Wire cables
        8. Omega and Consonance Cyber 211. Discovery cables
        9. Analysis and Joule Electra. Radio Shack Homemade. 3 legs braided like a Womans hair braid.
       10. Paradigm and VTL. Monster cable
       11. ZU and Art Diavolo. Zu cables

 Well its a start. The room is key , however unless you live in a shoe box these combos should prove very well in any room.

  rollo

[Carlman]

I'll say McIntosh + Piega's are a great match. I've heard at least 3 different versions multiple times and own it.

AKSA amp and Tara Labs TFA? cables... very important match.

Butler amps and Usher speakers, very good match for warm and relaxing but detailed music.

Well... back to work...

[WEEZ]

An all Odyssey system = synergy. For real.

WEEZ

[Bigfish8]

An all Odyssey system = synergy. For real.

WEEZ

Weez:

Your comment above makes me recall my initial conversations with Mr. Klaus! 

I am not sure I know what "Synergy" is but I suspect it sounds different to everone.  Based on what I am learning about this hobby people change gear and cables to produce sound that is "synergy" to them.  Maybe I am out to lunch, not unusual!

Ken

[Carlman]

Basically, if all the components (sound as if) they are working together in harmony... and no one component stands out or disrupts an otherwise very enjoyable performance, you've got synergy.

When I first got started in hifi, I tried to look at the specs to 'match' amp and speakers.  If I bought an amp that produced 50 watts peak, I didn't see the need to buy a speaker that could handle much more than that.  As elementary as that sounds, I was attempting to use accepted technical data to formulate a technical match.  However, if there were 2 different pairs that were identical in (basic) specs, 1 might sound better than the other... That 'magic' is the synergistic thing.  It's the "je ne sais quoi" of audiophilia... You know it when you have it... and if you swap in and out a piece of gear it will destroy the 'magic' of the performance for some reason... sometimes prat, maybe tone... just isn't right..

I'm sure someone can explain it better... but that's my attempt.

-C

[miklorsmith]

I think that's a very good description, Carl.  I'll add that it isn't an on/off thing either, there are levels.  This concept leads right back to the discussion of Nervosa.  Close loop, I like things clean!   

[Black Sand Cable]

The best example I have heard of true system synergy is when I was running an all Monitor Audio / Parasound system. I have no idea why but this combo is something to behold. I had numerous "audiophiles" stroll through my house who owned systems that cost 5 times (and it some cases more) then what my system was worth and many walked out very pissed off at there own system.

One buddy of mine actually went out and bought an all Parasound HALO / Monitor Audio GS system and to this day it's one of the best sounding systems I have heard.

So my short list below is based on first hand experience with gear that I have owned.

Parasound / Monitor Audio GR & GS Series & Silver Series
Sunfire / Paradigm Studio VII Series
Anthem / Axiom M50's & Monitor Audio Silver Series
Bryston / Green Mountain Audio Pico Grande's

Some will note that my current McIntosh / RAW Acoustics system isn't listed. Not an error. I love the speakers and love McIntosh stuff but at the end of the day I'm not sure that I have found the right match for my speakers yet. Why you ask? Good question. I have been fooling around with several amps lately and much to my surprise I have tried a few that in some areas I actually prefer over my current McIntosh. I recently borrowed a set of HALO mono blocks and they walked on my MC402 but I have no room for two big ass mono blocks. If I did, I can honestly say that I would switch.

Bryan (bpape) recently sold me a Sunfire amp for something I'm putting together for somebody else and last night I  hooked it up my HT8's using four channels of the Sunfire to power my mains and this again made me think twice about the McIntosh. I don't know if it was better but it made me think.

Some days I hate this dam hobby.....

[rollo]

 The Parasound Halos are IMO one of the best SS assaults out there. I have heard them on Sound Labs, Quads and B&Ws. All to great affect. Man those Sound Labs are something else. Pricey yes, need a large room and hard to drive, but when all is right Wow! The sound with the Parasound was effortless and dynamic as all hell. The Quads [63] never sounded so good and the B&Ws, well for the first time I liked them. Great SS amp.
     

rollo

[richidoo]

rollo, I've been looking at those. My speakers would love that extra power, and I like the design concept. I'm going to listen to them tomorrow but not in a very good system. Did you ever have any issues with reliability? How is Parasound to deal with for questions, customer support, etc.  How did you deal with the heat? Sorry for off topic.
Thanks
Rich

[Black Sand Cable]

rollo, I've been looking at those. My speakers would love that extra power, and I like the design concept. I'm going to listen to them tomorrow but not in a very good system. Did you ever have any issues with reliability? How is Parasound to deal with for questions, customer support, etc.  How did you deal with the heat? Sorry for off topic.
Thanks
Rich

I have owned at one time or another almost everything that Parasound offers from the old HCA-750A, HCA-1000A, HCA-1500A, 2205, 2250 and the list goes on. I have also owned the newer A21 and A23 amps. When it comes to pre/pros, I have also owned the older 2500U as well as the newer C2.

That span covers roughly ten years and in all that time I had a fuse blow on me on one amp and it was my own fault. Parasound is an excellent company to deal with and they stand behind there stuff. I remember when they announced an upgrade to the C2 I was perplexed as the unit needed to go to Parasound directly. I called them up and let them know that I was in Canada and they sent me out the chip that needed updating and walked me through installing it....and then they called me back a week or so later to make sure that everything was working! AWESOME product and even better service.

If you buy a set of JC 1 mono blocks, I will never talk to you again.....jealously is ugly but it is what it is! 

[richidoo]

If you buy a set of JC 1 mono blocks, I will never talk to you again.....jealously is ugly but it is what it is! 

Well then just forget I ever mentioned it!     Thanks for the info John.