Hi-Rez DACS

[Bigfish8]

Guys:

I am sitting on the audio side lines waiting to purchase my next DAC to pair with my Mac Mini Server.  Without question the stand alone DAC has to be the hottest product in the audiophile market.  As we transition from playing music from a silver disc to streaming digital bits directly from a computer or hard drive the DAC becomes the focal piece in the system.  

Since becoming an active member of the audio hobby a few years ago I "married" the convenience of using a computer as a music server.  My initial venture was with a Bolder Modded Squeezebox (analog mods) with modded power supply.  Next up was a ModWright Modded Transporter which taught me a great deal about tubes and my most recent experience was using the Mac Mini and a Tranquility DAC.  Being an impressionable sort of person I was happy with the last set-up until I attended the last G2G at Rich's and learned that while my DAC was good there was better at the meet for not a huge difference in price.  Long story cut short, The Tranquility is now in the home of another happy owner.

Some of you guys that frequent AN get exposed or have the opportunity to listen to lots of gear.  My next DAC has to be capable of HI-Rez (min of 192), fed by USB or FireWire, and have RCA outputs.  I have had the opportunity to spend time with the Antelope Zodiac+ (Thanks to Shane) and I can state at the moment it is at the top of my list.  I would have pulled the trigger but wanted to wait for data (pricing, etc) about the Antelope Gold but it appears Antelope continues to push the release date.  I should also note the Gold is of interest because of the remote volume control, improved analog section and stepped volume control.

Okay guys, what have you heard that you think, given the above criteria, I should be considering.  I can also note it is not a question if I am going to buy something, it is purely a matter of when!  I am beginning to miss real high quality music from my system.

Thanks,

Ken

[richidoo]

Hi Ken!! Sorry I missed you yesterday.
Are you willing to use the volume control in your Pure Music software instead of remote volume control in the DAC itself? You can control it with a laptop or iPad from your couch. That would open up more choices of DAC without VC.  You want to connect the DAC direct to the amps, right?

[Bigfish8]

Hi Ken!! Sorry I missed you yesterday.
Are you willing to use the volume control in your Pure Music software instead of remote volume control in the DAC itself? You can control it with a laptop or iPad from your couch. That would open up more choices of DAC without VC.  You want to connect the DAC direct to the amps, right?

I have to admit to being a chicken when it comes to relying on digital, software volume control.  I have read of blown tweeters so I think I am going to shy away from that option.  

I do not envision the use of multiple music sources and am at least seriously considering the near term elimination of a pre-amp.  Steve has allowed me the privilege of using his AR Ref 1 and it makes everything sound wonderful (plus it looks great).  If I find the choice of DACs too limited by elimination of the pre I will try to see if Steve will part with the Ref 1.  It is certainly not a case of not liking the Ref 1 it is simply a case of deciding what is the best route to take.

Thx,

Ken

[rollo]

 Look into Wavelength or Empirical Audio. IMO they are at the top of the game. I know this sounds nuts but have you tried just using the Mac by its lonesome ? According to a buddy of mine who was DAC crazy with his Mac eventually stuck with the Mac only, go figure.


charles

[richidoo]

A friend of mine went the Wavelength route, followed by a half dozen other DACs, he says all of them were better than the Wavelength.  I think he ended up with Empirical, actually.

I like a jitter eliminating DAC, so that digital transport quality is less critical. Antelope, Empirical DAC, anything with ESS chip, all have reclocking or jitter filtering built in. You should consider a PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC which has remote control, and can accept the bridge which would eliminate your Mac host.

[BobM]

Just reading about the new DCS DAC in Absolute Sound. It's cheap for them at $11,000. What a bargain!

[Face]

I'd do a little research on the Antelope, I've heard some complaints about their QC. 

As for my recommendation, I'd check out the Wyred DAC-2.  I like it so much I picked up two.   

[richidoo]

A little ditty about Antelope...

http://www.audioforums.com/forums/showthread.php?15418-The-AARDVARK-LX6-AD-DA

I owned an Aardvark soundcard, I was surprised one day to find they were just gone. So once the drivers stopped working on newer OSs I donated the Direct 2496 to a church. It is good to be aware of the history of a company before you jump in. No doubt Igor is a genius designer based on current and past products, AND I'm sure he learned a lot from the Aardvark business issues.

[TomS]

Ken,

I am using the Audiphilleo 1 USB->S/PDIF into my Bryston BDA-1 using a lightweight Linux server for USB.  It also has an excellent dithered digital volume with trainable IR remote similar to the Weiss.  I was considering the Antelope which is apparently really good, but for me, Linux was a no go on it so I've passed for now.  I told a couple of people that, while I've not been on a constant DAC parade, as I've been pretty happy, I was stunned at how this combo simply blew away my Empirical re-clocked Transporter/Bryston setup, which I really thought was pretty darn good.  Not at all subtle either.  I've always thought I should be moving away from S/PDIF because that's what everyone else seems to say and my engineer brain says so too.  Just not so in this case, as it's the best digital combo I've ever had here.  Obviously there is more to it than I thought.  And it was totally plug and play to 24/192 native, on Linux yet.  No pops, funny noises when switching, nothing.  It just works.  Always learning new stuff I guess.  It sounds terrific.

Tom

[lonewolfny42]

Link..... http://www.audiophilleo.com/default.aspx 

[Bigfish8]

Guys:

Thanks for the recommendations and advice.  Good ole Shane brought by some tubes I purchased on Saturday and also loaned me the Antelope Zodiac+, again.  My set-up with the Zodiac+ is:
Mac Mini > Zodiac+ > Moscode 402 AU > Usher Dancer Mini II's.  Yes, very simple and a set-up I could not imagine 6 months ago - no preamp in the chain. 

You are likely thinking, why not buy the Zodiac+?  While I may do so I would end-up buying a linear power supply for it and I wish it had a standard USB connection rather than using the mini B.  The Gold edition will address both of these concerns but unfortunately it will likely come with a steep upgrade in price. 

So, where does this leave me?  I will admit to trading e-mails with Steve of Empirical Audio and he recommended a tricked-out Overdrive DAC for approximately $5000.00.  While I have never heard one I have no doubt it would sound very good but I will not spend that amount of money in a stand alone DAC regardless of how good it is.  It is just a case of knowing the product will have little value 6 months down the road due to the rapidly evolving technology. 

Honestly, I had this slight hope that you guys were aware of something "earth shattering" that I had not considered.  I am looking for "silver purse performance" at a "sow's ear price."     Seriously, putting the Zodiac+ back in the system and removing the Bolder Analog Modded Squeezebox 3 reminded me of a recommendation Rich made to me approximately 6 months ago.  "When you replace something in your system just sell the old piece of gear because it will never be good enough for you again." 

I will take my time making a decision, take advantage of listening to Shane's DAC and eventually buy a DAC from him!   

Thanks again for the responses!

Happy Holidays!

Ken

[bpape]

I had the pleasure of having the Empirical in our system at RMAF.  I understand your thoughts on the price but IMO, it is that good and worth every penny.  It includes a nice gain control/volume control that is digital but not a bit dumper.  It operates by varying the reference voltage to the DAC chip.  We fed it from a Mac Mini with SS drives.

I've never heard anything close to that in terms of black background, dynamics, UBER clean presentation, excellent harmonic rendition, etc.  I was simply floored.  If I was using a direct from PC type of setup, it would absolutely be in my system.  No question in my mind.

Bryan

[richidoo]

Nice ideas guys! Great!

I like that little Audiphilleo Tom. Thanks for the link Chris.  I like that it works on Linux too.

Ken, sounds like you are on the right track. I think you have taken my advice from 6 months ago to a new and better interpretation. I think I just repeated Carl's advice to me, which was, (paraphrased) "Once you decide that you are not gonna keep something forever, then sell it now. It will only lose value by waiting, and there is no shortage of new and better stuff to replace it."  Especially DACs, which increase in performance while decreasing in cost every year.   But the fact that it will never be good enough for your newly spoiled ears is another good reason to move on.  But budget shoppers like us like to slow things down.

[TomS]

Nice ideas guys! Great!

I like that little Audiphilleo Tom. Thanks for the link Chris.  I like that it works on Linux too.

Ken, sounds like you are on the right track. I think you have taken my advice from 6 months ago to a new and better interpretation. I think I just repeated Carl's advice to me, which was, (paraphrased) "Once you decide that you are not gonna keep something forever, then sell it now. It will only lose value by waiting, and there is no shortage of new and better stuff to replace it."  Especially DACs, which increase in performance while decreasing in cost every year.   But the fact that it will never be good enough for your newly spoiled ears is another good reason to move on.  But budget shoppers like us like to slow things down.

I spent all of $130 on the little Alix board to drive it, so with the AP1 it learns the commands from the Bryston BR2 remote for volume, mute, track selection, input switching to the DAC, etc. so preamp not necessarily required either.  All for under $1k total.  AP2 is more basic, but same sound.  He has a 30-day trial but I'll be keeping mine.  Here is a link to 6moons review http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/audiophilleo/1.html, though mostly an interesting "educational" piece not so much about sonics.

[JBryan]

I'm also looking for a DAC to replace my aged California Audio Lab's 24/96 Alpha which I've had for +10 years. Because I use a network player (modded SB3 w/digital-out only) and a CDP, I must have a DAC with input switching - preferably via remote. I've been looking at DACs for a couple of years and am becoming aware that this may not be the best time to jump as the new chips and Hi-Rez downloads have upped the tech requirements and most of the DACs I've researched are not as capable as what's out there now. It seems the technology is in a bit of flux as the newer models utilize asynchronous USB and just as I was getting used to that, out comes the Sabre 32 bit chip and 192 sampling rate.

As the latest DACs keep rolling out, the less-capable ones are apt to lose value quickly like hard drives and digital cameras. Given the incremental increases in sound quality, perhaps I'll wait a bit (pun?) and hope for a calm in the market.