Amps versus other System Components

[Black Sand Cable]

None of us are gonna start with crap speakers.

Crap no, but what may sound good or even great to you, may sound like crap to me and vice versa. There are folks on this board who use speakers I would not personally use. It's personal taste which is why I always start with speakers that appeal to my personal taste.

In demo systems, I put together what people want to hear or audition but for my own enjoyment, I start with speakers that I personally like and enjoy the sound of.

[rollo]

Every system I have ever built has started with speakers. After that, I build around the speakers. If you don't like the sound of the speakers off the get go, it wont matter what you run with them, you still wont like them.

Years ago I had a set of speakers here that were highly regarded, had numerous positive reviews etc and.....I hated them right from the start. I tried tubes, a dozen or so different amps, different sources and a host of other things and nothing I did made me like them.

  How does one audition a speaker without the rest of the system ? How can one tell if they have made the right choice without trying several gear combos. sounds like a merry go round to me. Speakers cannot be judged without the gear. Just trying to understand your reasoning NOT putting it down.
  Could you please expand your thoughts. This is an interesting subject. Thanks.


charles

The speakers put out what you hear. You can swap out gear till your Blue in the face but for the most part, the speakers are still going to be doing the exact same thing and keep the sound they were designed for. SS versus tube will bring differences but I have yet to hear a crap set of speakers or a pair of speakers that I personally didn't like the sound of, made better by swapping out gear.
 
That is my rational. It may or may not be flawed but it works for me so I tend to stick with it.

Cool. Interesting theory. Its not flawed just your perspective. for me , as an example never liked Wilson speakers . At the shows the associated gear IMO was the problem. Now in the Lamm room those Wilsons blew me away. Wilsons claim to fame is neutrality. So in essence the gear will make a substantial difference in the enjoyment level. Same with the Maggies. Hated the Bryston setup loved the AR setup.
 As Rich stated there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat. No right or wrong here just different opinions.


charles

[richidoo]

I had similar experience with Wilson WP7, they sucked on Levinson's best, but I wanted to sell the house while hearing them with AR Ref electronics. Went back a week later same electronics, OK, but not transcendent as before. Speakers had been moved.

Amps and setup had a much more profound effect on the listening experience than the speakers which could sound like heaven or hell depending on how they were used.

[Bigfish8]

Having lived with power hungry speakers for a long time, I'd seriously consider exploring the SET/tubes/high-efficiency direction to see where it leads.  Never really done that.

The DeHavilland/Wilson Benesh room produced the music I liked the best at last year's RMAF.  The problem was that the Amps, Speakers, Preamp, Source and Cables retailed for around $50,000.00.  I had been enticed into the room from the Wilson Benesh Dealer while sitting next to him at the bar just chatting about audio.  He told me I needed to come visit the room and hear an "affordable system." 

Anyway, if I could afford to start over, I agree with Mike, Set Amps and high efficiency (non-horn) speakers would definitely be of interest.

Ken

[rollo]

Once you go SET most do not go back to push pull amps. That being said it really depends on the music you listen too. If your a rocker or techno dude stay away from the 300B based amps [ Airtight being the exception] IMO.  Far away. Pointing out that some SETs like 300 B based are not up to snuff in the bass department. Now 845,805 or 211 based SETs can rock with the best of them.
    So if your a midrange based type than the 300B will melt ya. If your a rocker than 845 might be for you. For me the most important area of reproduction is the top end. Bright, over detailed, sibilant, thin NOT my thing. What captures my soul is that naturally sweet, airy and still accurate top. The cymbals just float after that metallic hit and the decay is intoxicating.
   Actually one of the most dynamic and lifelike systems I've experienced was Klipsh [K horns] and Losech & Weisner 8W SETs. mind boggling actually. Big Band was awesome. The horns had bite the bass kicked serious arse. Imaging their only weakness IMO. Go listen to a similar system oh bring a jock strap, cause your balls will hit the floor.


charles

[BobM]

There are speakers that are truly neutral, like the Hansons. These definitely let the character of upstream components come through and can sound good or not so good, depending. But there are lots and lots of speakers that are inherently colored, and no matter what you put in front of them you still hear their character. I think most speakers fall into this category, which is why it may be best to start with the speakers and then find an appropriate amp for them.

Possibly doing the yin/yang thing between them to get the right balance / neutrality. Offsetting the faults of one with the other, so to speak, more than accentuating the strengths of either will probably get you closer to happiness with the combo.