The AN Audio PC Project

[richidoo]

I was looking for Nicks recent posts about homemade audio PCs and couldn't find them.  So I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread about building a PC for use as a dedicated audio component.  My Duet/networking/PC issues continue although greatly improved, but I still want to build something truly up to the task. I hope there is a lot of interest in this with so many people using Squeezebox/Sonos/Playstation/fubar, etc.

Nick, maybe you can link in some of your other posts? Many of us are using computer for music - shall we organize what we know into a thread that contains all our knowledge? Pile on!

Areas for discussion?
Silent PC and noise isolation
Fast data transfer
Powerful processor
Storage options
OS options
Software options
Shape / size?

Thanks!!
Rich

[richidoo]

I found this site with info on Linux based audio software. It is supposed to be pretty up to date and active.

http://sound.condorow.net/

I like linux because it is free and fast. But I wasn't aware of any software to record audio under linux, one of my needs for my audio PC.
Rich

[bpape]

For now, stick with XP (if PC based) and not do Vista.  Too many driver issues with Vista still.

RAM is cheap - 2GB minimum,  Kingston is fast and reliable at reasonable prices.  Other brands are good too - but unless it's a hardcore gaming/video box, you really don't get any more performance/reliability for your extra $$$.

MB - Consider a heat pipe design.  There are several options.

CPU - personally, I'm an AMD guy.  Great performance for the money.  A 64 bit dual core can be had very reasonably that is more than up to the task.  The dual core cut my rip times in half by allowing multi-threading the FLAC conversion simultaneous to the EAC rip. 

Case - if the PC is going to be in a different room or it doesn't have to fit in an audio rack, the Antec Sonata is a very nice, flexible, easy to work on case that's very quiet and resaonably priced.

The biggest consideration is how you want to do disk.  Are you doing 1 big drive with an external backup or are you going RAID 1 (mirroring only) or RAID 5 (fully redundant giving NUMBEROFDRIVES-1 capacity, 3 drives minimum).  All have their advantages.  Personally, I like RAID 5 as I can always add more space up to the number of headers I have for disks.  I run 4 500GB drives in RAID 5 yielding 1.5TB usable space and fully redundant.  Lose a drive, swap it out, it'll rebuild itself.

Bryan

[Carlman]

To build a good audio PC, you really need a system of pieces that work together.  Here's what I'd do:

Get a small or unobtrusive PC that's very quiet.  Run XP and use Foobar for playback.  The PC hardware needs 500M+ of memory and a 2GHz processor max.  I'd use a 200M hard drive... or whatever the operating system will run.  The most important aspect of the PC is that it has a good (bit perfect) digital out (unless you are using a USB DAC).   You'll also need a monitor to place near your listening seat.  Leave some slack, get long cables.  A wireless keyboard might be a good idea here... but wired works too.
$~500

Strip it of all software you can, run the minimum services required to be a networked PC that can play music.

Clean all connectors, ethernet jack, usb ports, etc. with some CAIG and lint-free applicators.

Use new, correctly wired ethernet jacks and cabling for your wiring.  I do not use wireless.  It sucks for audio quality in every test I've done... and it's unreliable, slows down my network, etc.... So, I'm going all wired for the whole house.
$~20

Use a good switch or router
$~300

Build a music server with a good processor and memory by today's standards.  Use 2 1-TB hard drives.  Or, start with 1, whatever you need plus 50%. 
Put EAC on the server.  Use the server to burn your cd's with the correct offset and for the best drive for CD-burning.  I recommend a Plextor CD-RW, not a DVD combo. This can be in any room but the audio room... too noisy... needs air movement.
$~900

Load up all your music to the big server in .flac format.  Create an automated backup for anything that changes to your NAS.  The server is where all of your music will be.  If you have the Squeezeboxes, load it on the server.

Oh, buy a NAS that's as big or bigger than the PC's storage.  Good ventilation needed for this too.
$~300

All said and done, you're talking 2,k to setup a long-term excellent-sounding 'transport system' including backup and playback for your audio system.  Add your DAC and start listening.

This is a lot of work to put together correctly.  Luckily there are plans to get this done.

[Dougie085]

I've been using vista for a while with no issues. Vista has this feature called Bit Accurate or something like that.... Basically can bypass everything and feed the signal directly into the soundcard so that nothing gets messed with. I'm not sure exactly how to use this feature though. Especially if your building the PC new then I wouldn't worry about driver issues with vista.

[ik632]

I agree with Carl on this. There are Dell XPS200 series machines that are super tiny and almost silent. Their lower brother is a little less powerful but I think both can be found for around $500. I like the idea of a separate NAS/Server and you already have the NAS so you can get a decent server for pretty cheap these days too. I'm a big fan of the small form factor setup and I think I could build a really  nice setup for around $1k-1.2k. Add some here and there for ancillaries, and you are at 2k for a full "new to you" setup.

[Carlman]

I've been using vista for a while with no issues. Vista has this feature called Bit Accurate or something like that.... Basically can bypass everything and feed the signal directly into the soundcard so that nothing gets messed with. I'm not sure exactly how to use this feature though. Especially if your building the PC new then I wouldn't worry about driver issues with vista.

In XP there is something similar, you bypass the Kmixer and do one other thing.. can't remember at the moment.  I have only experimented once with a Vista machine and I could hear a noticeable decrease in sound quality over my XP machine, both running the same version of Foobar, both playing the same files.  I did not know about the bit accurate thing but that's good to know for the future.

As it stands, I have 2 XP boxes ready to go, 1 as the audio PC, the other as the server... So, no need for me to deal with new Vista challenges yet.

-C

[bpape]

Exactly.  The KMixer thing is one thing IF you want to bitstream directly from a sound card.  I only use mine as a server to stream FLAC files across the net to the SB.  I've just heard too many horror stories about getting the SB server side and EAC/FLAC converter to run properly under Vista.

As with anything Microsoft, never buy in until you're at least at service pack 1, sometimes SP2

Bryan

[richidoo]

As with anything Microsoft, never buy in until you're at least at service pack 1, sometimes SP2

Bryan

From experience I agree. I always wished my IT shop would go sparc/oracle/linux so we could go home on time. MS licensing noose made that impossible. The all IBM box was perfect all the time.

Here's some reads about Vista that I dug up. Some flowers among the weeds if you are patient enough to read it all.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t55459.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=713073

[Dougie085]

Well I did have issues pre SP1 but with SP1 I've had none. My friend is also using Vista SP1 on his HTPC and he hasn't had any issues. On that note all microsoft products are garbage

[Carlman]

I have considered an all-Linux situation for dedicated audio-use but haven't gotten to that point yet.  If you're into it and have the time, it's great... Until reliability reaches a point where it significantly interupts my enjoyment, I'll be using XP.
-C

[richidoo]

I tend to feel the same way, because of my lack of experience administering Linux. But I have used it with other people's expertise in a large production environment and it was literally set it and forget it. 3 years  would go by without a reboot, while the windows servers nearby were fiddled with and upgraded almost everyday.  We have the advantage of a true Linux geius in our midst, ik632. The SC server he built runs fantastic on P3. But if the power goes out it's dead because the DHCP client isn't stable. Hard IP would solve it - easy enough, but DHCP should work and can be fixed. Maybe another linux flava is better for networking. I think I might try it, since the price is sooooo low and I could use the experience for my IT resume. Worth a try.  Maybe dual boot to windows as a backup (chicken!!!!)

I also want to be able to use latest SC nightly upgrades which eliminates Infrant, and requires some administration skills on linux. Gotta build a box first. That should be easy with advice in this thread and others.

[ik632]

You should be able to log into the webmin index (https://server:10000) and use the username and password. The DHCP is set becasue I didn't know what your network settings were. Next time I'm over we'll play around a little. There's also a web interface to install software so we can set it up to use the latest builds for SC and then do some bleading edge testing (past the cutting edge).

My ideal setup is still to run the entire system on a small form factor machine with hardware raid. I'd still probably run FreeBSD on it but Ubuntu Server (what we are using on the machine Rich has right now) is working pretty well. I think the network issue is that the motherboard is old and it needs some "priming" on the network and if the router goes down then it takes a little to get back up and running. That's easy enough to fix. I can even venture to do some more testing. I just need to pick up one of the external USB drives next time they are on sale.

[richidoo]

Is there a small form factor board that will run a P4, or AMD's finest? Seems worth the money to build as powerful as possible, even though the celeron miniboard would probably work fine, might as well get maximum speed for heavy processing plugins which are bound to appear, and if Windows ends up being used for some reason.

I am also really interested in fanless cooling, or at least very quiet fan cooling. Late at night the house is silent and I can hear everything. Bryan, can you post a link or two on what you used in yours for mobo and cooling? Thanks!
Rich

[bpape]

Motherboard

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24462

CPU

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24531

CPU Fan

Can't find mine - but this is a fanless with option to add a low speed quiet fan if desired

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24346

Very quiet but much larger fanned unit

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24677

Not quite as quiet but smaller for less MB stress in upright cases

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24675

Video Board - Very basic but I don't do video.  HIS has another one that is BluRay ready, HDCP ready, etc. and still fanless

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=AA72716

Bryan