ERS Paper for Powercords

[rollo]

 If you have not tried this wrapped around the conductors at the IEC side your missing a good thing. Wrap a 4" piece around each conductor. That's it that simple. Made one last evening with ERS at IEC, plug and middle of cord. A very quiet cord at the least. No ill effects heard. Take it for what its worth.
  Try using  some epoxy to fill the IEC and plug. Oh and polish those wires and plugs. Dremmel away. Chill with the shrinkwrap and additional coverings. A natural WOOL insulation core if your using separate leads as opposed to constructed wire. Try that wool for your circuit boards and trannies as well. Google commercial wool.
   Have fun boys.


charles

[Black Sand Cable]

Using ERS paper has been around for a long time and it does in fact do a decent job of blocking RFI and EMI but then again, so does a properly designed power cord.

ERS paper, copper tubing and a host of other readily available products can pull this off.

As for filling the IEC with epoxy, I will stay clear of that one as I don't see the point. I'm not sure that I would feel very comfortable introducing a flammable substance into an electrical environment. Granted the flammability will be based on the chemical composition of the epoxy but it would definitely be something to keep in mind. I would also give some thought as to what the epoxy may do over time given most termination housings are plastic and also what the long term effect could potentially be on the non plastic parts that may be exposed via direct or in-direct contact.

I hate to say it as I don't want to come across like I'm shitting on you here but why would you need to polish wires and plugs? Any decent wire is polished during extrusion and is done better then anything a Dremel can hope to do as more often then not, it's done under extreme pressure. When it comes to Male ends, polishing new terminations may cause more damage then good as most of the decent ones are polished at the factory and more then a few are done by hand these days...for a reason. If you take a cord that has been in use for an extended period of time and try and "buff" it up with a Dremel or something similar, I can guarantee you that it may look prettier but the end results wont be great as you just took off some of the finish that made it what it was. Keep in mind that most Male terminations regardless of the price point are not made of solid materials, they are plated and buffing removes some of the plating and in the case of softer compounds, you may take most of it off in a heartbeat and not even know it.

But at the end of the day, to each their own!

[Carlman]

I haven't had a lot of 'aha' moments with ERS.  I think it helped keep some things quieter in an amp I built once but otherwise, I have to agree with John it's likely a design issue causing the problem and ERS being more of a band-aid.  But if you have band-aids and they work, it makes sense to use them.

For cleaning metal-metal contact points.. I usually just do the CAIG Pro-Gold once a year on everything to get rid of oxidation.  For really dirty stuff I use Caig's Nylon bristle things but usually it's just a cotton t-shirt or paper towel.

A better trick to snug up the IEC is to wrap the IEC with some electrical tape.. If it's loose and needs a better mechanical bond.. etc.. which sometimes it does.. especially if you're using a heavy power cord.. say like a 'Statement One'..

-C

[rollo]

Using ERS paper has been around for a long time and it does in fact do a decent job of blocking RFI and EMI but then again, so does a properly designed power cord.

ERS paper, copper tubing and a host of other readily available products can pull this off.

As for filling the IEC with epoxy, I will stay clear of that one as I don't see the point. I'm not sure that I would feel very comfortable introducing a flammable substance into an electrical environment. Granted the flammability will be based on the chemical composition of the epoxy but it would definitely be something to keep in mind. I would also give some thought as to what the epoxy may do over time given most termination housings are plastic and also what the long term effect could potentially be on the non plastic parts that may be exposed via direct or in-direct contact.

I hate to say it as I don't want to come across like I'm shitting on you here but why would you need to polish wires and plugs? Any decent wire is polished during extrusion and is done better then anything a Dremel can hope to do as more often then not, it's done under extreme pressure. When it comes to Male ends, polishing new terminations may cause more damage then good as most of the decent ones are polished at the factory and more then a few are done by hand these days...for a reason. If you take a cord that has been in use for an extended period of time and try and "buff" it up with a Dremel or something similar, I can guarantee you that it may look prettier but the end results wont be great as you just took off some of the finish that made it what it was. Keep in mind that most Male terminations regardless of the price point are not made of solid materials, they are plated and buffing removes some of the plating and in the case of softer compounds, you may take most of it off in a heartbeat and not even know it.

But at the end of the day, to each their own!

  Where do I start. OK polishing, clean is the key. I use copper plugs no coating and copper with gold plating. A little Flitz and my Dremel works fine. Now if one uses a plated male plug that is not plated properly then "yes' it will come off. To date the Furutech plugs are so far still plated. Epoxy will not cause any ill effect to the plastic over time. Fire hazard is reaching a bit. Most of the cords out there do not have UL ratings anyway.
  Now ERS paper has improved every cord I've tried it with including Kimbers special windings. Can't hurt IMO. Try exposing the wire at the IEC end approx 3" and cover the leads with ERS. For me a quieter background was achieved.
  Maybe a shootout is in order. Your best cord against my homemade cord. Are ya game ? One philosophy verses another. Might prove interesting for all. Not a challenge or personal thing just a learning experience. There are many ways to skin a Cat as proven by all the powercord manfs out there.


charles

[rollo]

I haven't had a lot of 'aha' moments with ERS.  I think it helped keep some things quieter in an amp I built once but otherwise, I have to agree with John it's likely a design issue causing the problem and ERS being more of a band-aid.  But if you have band-aids and they work, it makes sense to use them.

For cleaning metal-metal contact points.. I usually just do the CAIG Pro-Gold once a year on everything to get rid of oxidation.  For really dirty stuff I use Caig's Nylon bristle things but usually it's just a cotton t-shirt or paper towel.

A better trick to snug up the IEC is to wrap the IEC with some electrical tape.. If it's loose and needs a better mechanical bond.. etc.. which sometimes it does.. especially if you're using a heavy power cord.. say like a 'Statement One'..

-C

  Fine. Its no bandaid its part of my design. The wire that goes into the IEC is covered only. The remainder of wire is left as designed. The additional shielding is for the unprotected wire at and before entering the IEC. The Caig stuff is great. Try Flitz metal cleaner as well. As far a snug fit, I agree and is very important. Why would one have to put electrical tape around an exotic cord ? The Furutech connectors for example are tight as heck, literally have to pull them apart. A properly designed cord should never sag, especially an expensive one IMO.  How about using the same manf. for the male IEC as the cord uses. Maybe the blade DIN is different than the IEC used in your component. 
   Anyway just trying to offer some suggestions for the DIY crowd that I know are affective. Take it for what its worth. A shootout will answer a lot of questions. Or as Bobby Fay would say a "Throwdown".

[_Scotty_]

The key thing to remember about ERS paper is that it absorbs RF radiation and does not raise the impedance of the power cord or IC at RF frequencies and it won't adversely affect dynamics in the music. It can act as shielding and a filter at the same time. I would say it is another useful tool in the designers
tool chest. I have found it useful in a wide variety of applications even if it is not a cure all. 
Scotty

[Carlman]

Rollo, I didn't realize you were talking about designing your own power cord to sell.  I thought you'd stumbled onto something so I added my opinion on other solutions. 

I personally don't wrap my cords with anything.  I just buy them and use them.  I made a couple of PC's in the past and they were only OK.  So now I just stick with cords from a company with a good product, service, and reputation.

-C

[Black Sand Cable]

Now if one uses a plated male plug that is not plated properly then "yes' it will come off.

Not plated properly? That has squat to do with it. The quality of plating goes out the window when direct contact with a Dremel or other similar device is thrown into the equation. Friction, heat and the subsequent effect from both cant be overlooked.

To date the Furutech plugs are so far still plated. Epoxy will not cause any ill effect to the plastic over time.

So you have tested this theory? What was the time frame used? A week, month or years? If it's anything less then years, I would question the results. As for Furutech, I used Furutech for years and got out of them as the quality dropped. However with that being said I have heard that they have got their shit together again and based on that, I may have to try them out and see if they have in fact gotten any better.....or if it's simply a case of them getting more expensive and thus people figure they are better.

Fire hazard is reaching a bit. Most of the cords out there do not have UL ratings anyway.

It's not reaching, it's thinking ahead. I pay a great deal of attention to this area as I would like my stuff to work 10 years from now problem free and if I don't "reach" as you put it and factor in all possible scenarios, I would be a fool. Anybody can sit around and think they have the next greatest power cord, ic or whatever but very few take into account how whatever it is they are making is going to react over pro-longed use under a variety of different circumstances.

I have also had my cords tested to the CSA, UL and ETL equivalent standards but I cant get them certified as being such as the money involved to get it done is insane. This is the main reason why I don't upgrade my line every few months. Each cord has been tested and subsequently proven to work as I say it will. Every time I upgrade, I'm starting from scratch and as a result, it takes me over a year before I can take it to market.

 

Now ERS paper has improved every cord I've tried it with including Kimbers special windings. Can't hurt IMO. Try exposing the wire at the IEC end approx 3" and cover the leads with ERS. For me a quieter background was achieved.

No argument here. I never said it didn't work. I just questioned the need for it if the cord in question was properly designed in the first place. But I have to ask. If I have it right you are making a cord that has 3in of wire exposed prior to the IEC? Why? Just to test ERS paper or is it something else? That goes against EVERY termination manufactures installation recommendations and that would include Furutech....and your in violation of almost every electrical code (in North America at least).

Maybe a shootout is in order. Your best cord against my homemade cord. Are ya game ? One philosophy verses another. Might prove interesting for all. Not a challenge or personal thing just a learning experience. There are many ways to skin a Cat as proven by all the powercord manfs out there.

As for a shootout, sure. If you want to have a shootout against one of my cords, knock yourself out. Buy whichever one of my cords you like and have at it. If you want to take on my best, I would suggest that you research the terminations and the outer jacket on my best and pay attention to how any potential EMI or RFI is handled as it's already a non factor.

Sorry but I have been involved in more than my fair share of shootouts over the last few years and I don't have anything to prove. 

[Black Sand Cable]

The key thing to remember about ERS paper is that it absorbs RF radiation and does not raise the impedance of the power cord or IC at RF frequencies and it won't adversely affect dynamics in the music. It can act as shielding and a filter at the same time. I would say it is another useful tool in the designers
tool chest. I have found it useful in a wide variety of applications even if it is not a cure all. 
Scotty

Agreed.

[rollo]

Rollo, I didn't realize you were talking about designing your own power cord to sell.  I thought you'd stumbled onto something so I added my opinion on other solutions. 

I personally don't wrap my cords with anything.  I just buy them and use them.  I made a couple of PC's in the past and they were only OK.  So now I just stick with cords from a company with a good product, service, and reputation.

-C

Hey Carlman no problem man. This is not personal, well to me anyway. The Furutech kits I will be selling do not have ERS paper. Just some experimenting.  You were correct that I stumbled on to this after reading about the possibilities. Nothing wrong with your choice to stay with good companies. There are many great cords out there. For me the price of entry was always the culprit. Think about it $1200 for a powercord. For me I need Two for the preamp, two for the amps, one for CDP, one for TT and one for sub. Seven cords at $1200 each. $$8400 for powercords. Shoot man, For me a quality cord may not offer all that the mega buck cord does [ maybe ] but its real close. So for me its a cost of $800 to make my own. Leaving me a lot of mulla for BETTER components , music or whatever.
   I will NEVER fault anyone for spending what they want. Its your money. IMO its overkill. Do date I've tried Dreamstate, Virtual Reality, Nordst, ESP, Siltech, Omega Mikro Active, Cardas, Top Gun, Legenberg and Shunyata. All VG but NOT close in value and performance to my homemade babies in MY system.
   My system consisting of Nearfield Acoustic Pipedreams, Consonance Cyber 211s, Loesch & Weisner Preamp, Lector CDP7L, and Linn/Lingo TT/ Benz cart. I believe this system can reveal a Fly farting or as they say on the farm "Its so quiet you can hear the grasshoppers pee on the cotton".
   Not raining on anyones parade, just offering my opinion.



charles

[richidoo]

"Its so quiet you can hear the grasshoppers pee on the cotton".

That's REALLY funny!   

It's good to see your infectious and provocative spirit of enthusiasm blooming again Charles! Keep it up!

[rollo]

Now if one uses a plated male plug that is not plated properly then "yes' it will come off.

Not plated properly? That has squat to do with it. The quality of plating goes out the window when direct contact with a Dremel or other similar device is thrown into the equation. Friction, heat and the subsequent effect from both cant be overlooked.

To date the Furutech plugs are so far still plated. Epoxy will not cause any ill effect to the plastic over time.

So you have tested this theory? What was the time frame used? A week, month or years? If it's anything less then years, I would question the results. As for Furutech, I used Furutech for years and got out of them as the quality dropped. However with that being said I have heard that they have got their shit together again and based on that, I may have to try them out and see if they have in fact gotten any better.....or if it's simply a case of them getting more expensive and thus people figure they are better.

Fire hazard is reaching a bit. Most of the cords out there do not have UL ratings anyway.

It's not reaching, it's thinking ahead. I pay a great deal of attention to this area as I would like my stuff to work 10 years from now problem free and if I don't "reach" as you put it and factor in all possible scenarios, I would be a fool. Anybody can sit around and think they have the next greatest power cord, ic or whatever but very few take into account how whatever it is they are making is going to react over pro-longed use under a variety of different circumstances.

I have also had my cords tested to the CSA, UL and ETL equivalent standards but I cant get them certified as being such as the money involved to get it done is insane. This is the main reason why I don't upgrade my line every few months. Each cord has been tested and subsequently proven to work as I say it will. Every time I upgrade, I'm starting from scratch and as a result, it takes me over a year before I can take it to market.

 

Now ERS paper has improved every cord I've tried it with including Kimbers special windings. Can't hurt IMO. Try exposing the wire at the IEC end approx 3" and cover the leads with ERS. For me a quieter background was achieved.

No argument here. I never said it didn't work. I just questioned the need for it if the cord in question was properly designed in the first place. But I have to ask. If I have it right you are making a cord that has 3in of wire exposed prior to the IEC? Why? Just to test ERS paper or is it something else? That goes against EVERY termination manufactures installation recommendations and that would include Furutech....and your in violation of almost every electrical code (in North America at least).

Maybe a shootout is in order. Your best cord against my homemade cord. Are ya game ? One philosophy verses another. Might prove interesting for all. Not a challenge or personal thing just a learning experience. There are many ways to skin a Cat as proven by all the powercord manfs out there.

As for a shootout, sure. If you want to have a shootout against one of my cords, knock yourself out. Buy whichever one of my cords you like and have at it. If you want to take on my best, I would suggest that you research the terminations and the outer jacket on my best and pay attention to how any potential EMI or RFI is handled as it's already a non factor.

Sorry but I have been involved in more than my fair share of shootouts over the last few years and I don't have anything to prove. 

  Your still reaching with the dremel. Never used a soft buffing bit ? Doesn't take much pressure to clean. Ges. Maybe I did not descibe it properly. Sorry. Not BARE wire, the dielectric remains of course its the outter covering I'm talking about. A fool I'm not. Yes it was an experiment. Which worked very well. So a properly designed cord will have NO RFI or EMI interference. Really.
  I use Epoxy so that the wire however mistreated will NEVER come loose a la ESP cords. Since Epoxy is recommended for use with plastic I forsee no problems. I do not believe a test is warranted for this. Cannot pull it apart no matter how hard I try.  Its just common sense.
  Yes UL certification is very expensive and so are the powercords. If one uses UL approved parts then its just the assembly that is uncertified. I see no problem with that but ones insurance compant might. That being said many high end manfs are in the same boat. I do not believe the UL police are gonna be knocking at our doors.
  Now no one said they have the lateset and greatest powercord. Especially me. This is my take. IMO an affective power conditioner will negate the use of so called better powercords. A simple motor run cap [ 6 mf 600v ] a Teflon cap [.01mf 600V ]plugged in to your outlet  and a good shielded cord after will be better or so close that the extra money is not warranted. So instead of seven powercords at $8400 my cost was $712. So if one wishes to spend the extra for a smidgen of improvement God bless.
   I have nothing to prove and have no agenda. The Furutech kits we wil be offering has NOTHING NOTHING to do with my findings through experimentation or this post. Just saying that if one wishes to try some ERS I
as  well as others have had some positive results. I will state that the exotic cords that have graced my system were better than my homemade cords but not bt much. When I connected my homemade conditioner the results were even closer. Sorry if this bothers you, just feeding the Nervosa and trying to help.
   As for the shootout it was in fun but it appears you do not want to have some fun. no one said you have something to prove. Your cord will most likely sound better or different . I have been a proponent of bang for the buck as long as I've been posting at any forum, its not personal or vindictive in any way shape or form. For goodnees sakes its not rocket science. Basic engineering and quality parts and some RD.



charles

[rollo]

The key thing to remember about ERS paper is that it absorbs RF radiation and does not raise the impedance of the power cord or IC at RF frequencies and it won't adversely affect dynamics in the music. It can act as shielding and a filter at the same time. I would say it is another useful tool in the designers
tool chest. I have found it useful in a wide variety of applications even if it is not a cure all. 
Scotty

Agreed.

 I agrree with your agreement.  Nothing is a cure all. That's why its fun trying stuff. Accidents do happen Penicillin anyone.


charles

[rollo]

"Its so quiet you can hear the grasshoppers pee on the cotton".

That's REALLY funny!   

It's good to see your infectious and provocative spirit of enthusiasm blooming again Charles! Keep it up!

 Thanks Rich. Yes its fun again. I love this stuff.


charles

[Carlman]

Rollo, I didn't realize you were talking about designing your own power cord to sell.  I thought you'd stumbled onto something so I added my opinion on other solutions. 

I personally don't wrap my cords with anything.  I just buy them and use them.  I made a couple of PC's in the past and they were only OK.  So now I just stick with cords from a company with a good product, service, and reputation.

-C

Hey Carlman no problem man. This is not personal, well to me anyway. The Furutech kits I will be selling do not have ERS paper. Just some experimenting.  You were correct that I stumbled on to this after reading about the possibilities. Nothing wrong with your choice to stay with good companies. There are many great cords out there. For me the price of entry was always the culprit. Think about it $1200 for a powercord. For me I need Two for the preamp, two for the amps, one for CDP, one for TT and one for sub. Seven cords at $1200 each. $$8400 for powercords. Shoot man, For me a quality cord may not offer all that the mega buck cord does [ maybe ] but its real close. So for me its a cost of $800 to make my own. Leaving me a lot of mulla for BETTER components , music or whatever.
   I will NEVER fault anyone for spending what they want. Its your money. IMO its overkill. Do date I've tried Dreamstate, Virtual Reality, Nordst, ESP, Siltech, Omega Mikro Active, Cardas, Top Gun, Legenberg and Shunyata. All VG but NOT close in value and performance to my homemade babies in MY system.
   My system consisting of Nearfield Acoustic Pipedreams, Consonance Cyber 211s, Loesch & Weisner Preamp, Lector CDP7L, and Linn/Lingo TT/ Benz cart. I believe this system can reveal a Fly farting or as they say on the farm "Its so quiet you can hear the grasshoppers pee on the cotton".
   Not raining on anyones parade, just offering my opinion.



charles

You are raining on parades with the way you state your opinion...
You're inferring that I pay 1200 for cords ... and that money would be better spent on other things that are more important.   It's like saying "I wouldn't be that stupid but you can be!" 
The problem is the assumption and inference.. and then going on and on about how it adds up.. man, I must be a real stooge.. they see me coming a mile away! 

I know it's nothing personal.. just letting you know how this reads to me. 

If you want to sell stuff, please put a tagline with your site link.. Or make it clear whether you're trying to sell or just doing DIY for yourself.  I don't know where you're coming from... and others may not be clear either.

-C