Author Topic: Influx of new DACS...  (Read 4905 times)

Deton Nation

  • Guest
Influx of new DACS...
« on: October 09, 2009, 12:07:58 PM »
So many new options either for direct connection to your computer or Net music player. I cant keep up... I have the Bryston bda-1 which seems to do everything well. I wonder if the new Dacs, some at $300 will outperform it. I guess its more about flavor than correctness. I mean if you hear a digital edge then its no good, but I believe DACS are surpassing those issues now. No questions, just an observation.
Mike

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6957
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2009, 07:58:06 AM »
NO and NO. Many inexpensive DACs IMO have proved well. Saying that the wanns bees still are. When one moves up tp a DAC like a Bryston or similar DAC the little DACs will through stones. The Bryston is Shock and Awe.
  Yes every now and then a killer appears [ Oritek] but they still need mods to surpass or equal DACs like yours. If I was you I would stay put. Try as many digital ICs [ really makes a big difference] as you can as well as support footers.
  Remember a classic is a classic and the wanna bees are attacking. Stand your guard.



charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline mfsoa

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 716
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2009, 08:23:44 AM »
Mike,

Your Bryston is pure junk and has been resoundingly trumped by all modern sub-$200 Chinese dacs.

You should sell it to me for pennies to avoid the embarassment of owning such crap.

( :^o in case you couldn't tell)

Making the Rave on the 24th?

-Mike

Deton Nation

  • Guest
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2009, 05:17:24 PM »
lol... I ve got to get rid of this piece.. qwick! Ill go if any of the LIers that drive with go... Ill ask.

I do need good footers, and probably try a few more ICs.
Thanks.
Mike

Offline BobM

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3318
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2009, 08:18:46 AM »
Yeah, digital has improved to the point where even inexpensive Chinese stuff sounds damn good. And the differences between really good stuff and a $200 Oppo are far less than you would imagine. But we're fanatics about the nuances, right? It's what we live for and pay the big bucks to achieve.

There will always be progress and improvement and you have to step up and pay for it most times. I still find that the differences between my modded Zhaolu and my Ayre CX7e are very slight, mostly that digital edge thing with the Zhaolu that I can't seem to get rid of no matter what I do. But the price difference is tenfold to get that extra "niceness". In digital you need big changes to make a little difference.

Not so with analogue, where little changes can make a big difference.
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and you'll have to blow your nose.

Offline S Clark

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1333
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 04:03:10 PM »
I am still getting my impressions together on a Buffalo Dac for which Gary Dodd designed a battery power supply.  So far, it does a lot of things very well   :D, but the total package cost quite a bit more than a $49 Chinese kit.
Speaker-GR Research LS9-XStatik-AltecFlamenco
Amp-Moscode,Dodd,Folsom
Pre-Dodd
Turntable-Vyger,Victor,TechnicSP10MK2
Phonopre-Hagermann,Jolida,GSlee   
Cable-AudioSensibility Wywires TWL
Cartridge-Dynavector,Sumiko
Tonearm-PioneerP3,Jelco
Rythmic sub

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 07:41:08 PM »
I have the Buffalo32 with their cheap power supplies. It is awesome. Just a little compressed sounding from the opamps, dynamically and spatially a little flat when compared to the finiest discreet stage, or tubes, etc. But that is easily ignored outside of a direct A/B comparison, and the music is just glorious and detailed, powerful and pure. This is what digital should be. They have an even better power supply option now called Placid. We are experimenting with alternate output stages for it.  The price is ridiculous for the sound quality.  There's nothing special about a battery compared to a good regulated active circuit. 

A lot of the cheap Ebay Chinese stuff is vintage phillips 8 pin DIP dacs. They sound nice but they are sensitive to jitter and just not as resolving.

lonewolfny42

  • Guest
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 07:47:49 PM »
Rich....
Can you describe the differences between the Buffalo and the Altmann...thanks.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 07:49:30 PM by lonewolfny42 »

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2009, 03:53:21 PM »
Sure. The Buffalo is overall more transparent. Instrument tone is clearer. Extension is higher and lower. There is more treble detail and louder, I did not like that at first, not used to full treble power, I like it a little rolled compared to full blast solid state hifi treble. But after I got used to it I don't notice it anymore, which is a good sign that it is natural sounding. Bass volume at lowest frequencies is louder. Bass control is much firmer, more bass detail. Background is absolute dead silent, the Altmann was not as dead quiet, maybe due to battery PS or maybe 2134 opamps. The Buffalo uses 4562 which gives a lot of current and dead silent. The opamp twinge was very apparent before I cut 4 traces as recommended in the instructions. It made the soundstage depth very shallow and dynamics somewhat compressed. After I cut the traces, the DAC was very close to Shane's Oracle DAC1000. Only in direct AB comparison could be hear a difference, and then only on complex audiophile recordings of complex instruments like steel guitar, like Nils Lofgren. Others with enhanced hearing sensitivity said they could here a little more difference. The rest of us dull ears were satified good enough, or didn't hear much difference. On normal music like Sarah Vaughan record no difference could be heard.

A nice thing about the DAC is with such powerful output stage giving such full tone and strong bass, a preamp is not necessary to get the good satisfaction. I keep trying to put Sols Cary 6SN7 preamp in there,  I like it at first, but after a while I can't stand it and it's a relief to go back to direct. The DAC has an optional volume control called Volumite which controls the DAC chip's internal digital volume control. Since it is 32 bit DAC, you can get 96dB of attenuation before losing any bits, so CDs don't suffer without a preamp VC.  The volume control linearity is not great, it does nothing at the bottom and gets sensitive toward the top where I use it while connected to 26dB amp and 90dB speakers. But it's usable and sounds good, no preamp needed.

I was worried that the Buffalo would be just another OS DAC and waited to sell the Altmann before I could compare. The Buffalo has all of the natural high frequency that I loved about the Altmann, but adds in the power and extension. The Altmann has a bump in the presence region which is typical of the BB2134 opamp. Sol pointed this out to me many times, when I accused his amps of the flaw. It was obvious when compared to the Buffalo. It is part of the Altmann's intense charm. After a couple swaps on a few different records even before I cut the traces I liked it better than the Altmann. Cleaner, more detailed, more powerful, just all around better. I am happy with it. My wife likes the battery back in the garage.  I am using a captive power cord that I pulled out of my computer parts box.

I use shit cheap home depot analog cable for digital. Don't ask me why. I hate the whole idea of wires. I suffer the speaker wires, but they make me crazy. The Sabre DAC chip doesn't seem to care. But I have not tried it with different digital cables yet. Even the Sonos which sounded horrible on the Altmann is clean and refined now, with same digital cable. The Sonos has a ugly looking switching power supply half inch away from the digital circuits. Output quality really suffers. But the Sabre chip straightens it out.

I'll be happy to build one for you Chris. I enjoyed building mine over a couple nights. They have a new even quieter power supply option now called Placid. You can try mine for a quickie if you want. It is pure stock with the cheap power supplies.
Rich
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 04:02:27 PM by richidoo »

Bigfish8

  • Guest
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2009, 05:27:17 PM »
I was at Shane's G2G when the DAC comparison was held.  The group kind of thought Shanes Oracle Preamp/Dac ($6,000) was a little better than the two Buffalo DACs in the comparison at about one tenth the price.  These things are scary good and a no brainer at the price.  I love my ModWright Transporter but had the Buffalo DACs kits been around in the spring of 08 I do not think I would own the Transporter. 

Ken

lonewolfny42

  • Guest
Re: Influx of new DACS...
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 10:16:59 PM »
Rich....

Thanks for the info.... 8)

May take you up on the audition offer...but down the road a bit..
....short of free time now. Thanks... :beer: