Usher Be-20 Crossover

[richidoo]

Just for reference, this schema is not posted anywhere on the web.

Parts are AID film caps on mid and tweeter. Bennic bipolar electrolytic caps on woofer. Usher 15W cement resistors in 2, 4 and 6 ohm parts, then paralleled to get correct value. I don't think the tweeter needs 30W resistor. The caps are all very inexpensive, but they sound OK, enough to get the job done. I am considering various upgrade possibilities, including doing nothing and enjoying it as is for a while more. Upgrading to boutique parts is not cheap, I guess that's why Usher didn't do it! haha

All filters are 2nd order. The resistors on the woofer under the caps make a zobel, I think, to adjust the impedance.  The woofers play up very high into the midrange, probably even some above 1kHz. But you'd never know it.  Pictures of the boards coming.


[attachment deleted by admin based on 2 year limit]

[_Scotty_]

richidoo,looking at your schematic the woofers are electrically a first order,from the website they are crossing over at 544Hz. The combined acoustic and electrical slopes may equal a second order crossover function at the specified frequency. I think Mills non-inductive resisters would be the way to go for replacing all of the resistors in the networks. Parts Express has them in various values rated at 12watts. If there are no zobels on the midrange and tweeter,which appears to be the case on the schematic,then you can clean up the sound of both drivers by adding the appropriate zobels to them. The highs will be sweeter with better resolution, and the midrange will also have better resolution and sound more natural.

Have fun upgrading.
Scotty 

[richidoo]

Thanks Scotty. That's interesting, first order huh?  Not sure if I'm gonna upgrade yet, it's expensive and it hurts resale. I'm getting closer to selling these anyway, so probably not. The crossover is designed by Joe D'Appolito, so I wouldn't change it. There are a few owners of Be20 who are curious about the crossover schematic so I wanted to post it.
Rich

[mdconnelly]

Whoa, Rich!  That's the first I heard that you're close to selling the Be20s... (I really don't get out much    Got something specific in mind?

[bpape]

What's up Rich?  Gonna sell the big boys?  Got something specific in mind that you're drooling over  or just issues getting them to work in your room?

Bryan

[richidoo]

         It  has been brewing for a while, ever since I realized what it will cost me in electronics to set these beasts free - but recently it has been solidifying. I am very attached to them, so I try to fight it off, denying the reasons.

I started using Steve's VT-100 after the DNA left. I didn't use it much during the SS auditions because it has worn tubes and I thought it was rough sounding compared to the low noise and refinement of the SS amps. But after a few days it smoothed out. It hasn't had much playing for a year or more. As perfect as the DNA was, after a short time with the VT100 I realized how much I miss a tube amp for breathing life into the music. Powerful tube amps that can drive the Ushers like a small SS amp would take me to a level of commitment where I am not willing to go. Julie wants to travel, so I want to increase the satisfaction per buck. The Ushers are awesome speakers, I am fully satisfied with their sound, but I am finding it difficult to fit them into my life for many reasons.

The room is the biggest issue. Suspended floor ruins low bass, kitchen appliance noise, fireplace and window glass, furniture doesn't fit, decorative soffit corner echoes, etc.  The latest is that ticking sound I have been mentioning for a year is finally solved! I had narrowed it down to the speakers, after blaming everything else at some point. But then I heard it with speakers disconnected. I decided then I have to get out of this room. The tick is coming from the windows or nail pops behind the speakers. Both sides have two windows, so it's not something I can fix without soundproofing the corners and screwing up my imaging. We don't want the living room to look like recording studio anyway. The Ushers cannot work in any other room of my house for acoustic and livability reasons. It's sad and took me a long time to accept that the blameless speakers had to go.

I read my new book, "Get Better Sound" by Jim Smith, former AvantGarde importer and famous professional room tweaker. He emphasizes the importance of musical satisfaction over audiophile performance and technical perfection. I really resonated with that, since I have had both types of system, and I got different rewards from each. Nowadays I spend a lot of time searching for solutions to my technical problems so the hobby fun is watered down by all that time spent trying to solve unsolvable problems.  Hearing the tube amps on the Ushers again was powerful coincidence with reading the book, and discovering the cause of that damn tick.

My most satisfying music system is the minivan. Battery chip amp and paper drivers playing radio and mp3s through a cassette adapter with good acoustics and EQ. There is no perfection there, but it satisfies. I want a lower distortion version of that sound with tube amps. It has to be in a 11x12x9 room if I want to listen at night. I already tried the Ushers in there...      Right now I'm more interested in musical satisfaction than technical perfection, although I lament what I may have to give up to get a stereo that fits all my requirements. I am most concerned about losing the tremendous scale of the Ushers in the large room. I may have to save that for the next house with dedicated listening room. That's at least 10 years away.

The tube amps I want require high efficiency and easy load. I want 3 way for good bass and clean mids, paper drivers, low distortion, and movable.  I have some candidates in mind, and you'll hear about it for sure!
Rich

[Bigfish8]

Rich:

I think this decision may be as tough for you as was deciding to part with the Snappers.  However, I have been sensing this was probably a decision you were having to wrestle with.  I think all of us who know you also know that you love tube amps.  They just produce a quality of sound you prefer. 

I will be very interested in hearing the speakers you move into next as I know they will be very special. 

Ken

[Phil]

Rich,

That is a good distinction.  I'm dreaming along similar lines and have been thinking about these:

The DA 1.1:  http://www.daedalusaudio.com/home%20theater.html

The Ikonoklast3 HO:  http://www.warrengregoire.com/hifi-stereo-ikonoklast3.htm

Both tube friendly and seem to be all about music.  Good luck with the quest.
Phil

[Black Sand Cable]

The DA 1.1:  http://www.daedalusaudio.com/home%20theater.html


Phil

Phil,

Did you see these?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1248877954&/Daedalus-DA-1-Cherry-

[_Scotty_]

It would appear that you will have to live without the kind of sound that a large speaker can deliver in your room. Any speaker with similar capabilities will invariably come will the same liabilities as the BE-20.
Good luck with your quest for musical satisfaction,it appears that you will have to travel a little further down the road before finding Nirvana.
Scotty

[chrisa]

   Right now I'm more interested in musical satisfaction than technical perfection, Rich

Now you're speaking my language. This is very fertile ground for musical enjoyment.

Chris

[richidoo]

After the fun time at Carl's last night with a true audiophile perfectionist system in a well treated space, I am reminded of the joys of the pursuit of technical perfection. High power, low distortion, control and precision. Of course finding musical satisfaction in a technically correct way is the ideal, and the most expensive and demanding path. Being a Gemini I will continue to vascillate until I have both systems playing and pick which I like better, or keep both. Shhhh

I heard Daedaleus at RMAF 2007, bigfish asked me to check them out. They used a 845 SET amp and that was my favorite of the non-perfectionist rooms. Playing real jazz on efficient speakers with powerful SET amps was a treat. I am s alittle scared of the dual tweeters on your pick Phil, but that's my technical left brain judging based on dogma. They are trying to increase sensitivity to the level of the single midrange. I don't remember which version I heard at RMAF 07. But at 08, Daedaleus didn't impress me quite as much, I don't remember which amp this past year. 

Thanks Scotty, the search always continues. After the party I am very motivated to pursue the Ushers and the big room further. Thanks to the good ideas and encouragement from people at the g2g and AN.   

[Phil]

Rich,

My curiosity about the two speakers is based upon reading reviews only, so it could be that one listen would end the dream.  I won't pursue listening to them until I'm certain it is time to change speakers (and can convince my wife -- she loves the current speakers).  The idea of double tweeters makes me think twice too.  I can't imagine knowing what a speaker sounds like without listening to it in my own living room. 

My system is approaching the sound that I'm trying to achieve and that is practical to spend and share space with.  Over the last two years, the aim has been to tweak and add modest upgrades to see what the speakers can do.  The answer is: more than I thought.  There is one more upgrade in the works and then it will be time to let it all settle in and listen (he says to himself knowing the little voice talking about a speaker upgrade will return). 

Apparently the updated version of the Daedalus is a little less forgiving than the first but has better imaging.  Wish I could make to RMAF, but it is at the busiest time of year for me. 

At any rate, have fun with your search. 

Phil

[richidoo]

Now that I know that the tick is not coming from the audio system, it doesn't really bother me so much. The ill feeling of "I paid how much for these ticks to annoy me????" is fading away....   

I think I will go ahead with the crossover upgrades. It will not hurt resale since stock COs are untouched. I think I'll just leave them in place, wires and all. Just make a new terminal post plate for external COs, active and passive.

[Carlman]

I think I will go ahead with the crossover upgrades. It will not hurt resale since stock COs are untouched. I think I'll just leave them in place, wires and all. Just make a new terminal post plate for external COs, active and passive.

That sounds good.. you could even leave the stock wires attached and bundled... And replace the internal wiring from drivers to your xo's.  Changing back to stock will be a breeze.
-C