Author Topic: Stereo Subs Anyone?  (Read 16902 times)

Offline P.I.

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 1952
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: Stereo Subs Anyone?
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2023, 10:05:21 PM »
So… Some details- The second sub is in place and hooked up. I’m using Belden 12 gauge for wire. I haven’t gotten the flat power cord yet, but I’ve been monitoring for noise or hum, neither of which has surfaced. I quite literally have an extension cord running alongside the main speaker wire and sub wire, with zero noise. If I put my ear up to the tweeter at full volume I hear a bit, but I’ve heard much worse in my own system and in others. At normal ‘high volume’ there is no noise.

I’m still dialing them in- Hsu phone help is very good, patient and knowledgeable. I’ve had several calls just going over ‘what ifs’ and various setting scenarios. There’s volume, two EQ settings, Q, phase; with two subs there seems to be more interaction both room wise and with each other. Having an asymmetrical room doesn’t help matters.

So far though, so good. My main goal, having it sound like there are no subs, is being achieved.

Tweak on, Brother, tweak on! 😁
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline GDHAL

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2275
  • All we need is music, sweet music
Re: Stereo Subs Anyone?
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2023, 06:19:47 AM »
..........So far though, so good. My main goal, having it sound like there are no subs, is being achieved.

Hi James. I don't think you literally mean the portion of your post I've quoted. Just my .02 and opinion, but having your system sound like there are no subs defeats the purpose. If you want your system to sound like you have no subs, don't use any. The trick is (and this is what I eluded to previously in this thread) is to have them integrated properly, which isn't necessarily all that easy to do. You want to hear/feel the subs at the appropriate time, when the music content calls for it. When heard/felt, it could be subtle or not so subtle, again, depending on the music (sound if home theater).

Glad to read it's working out to your liking though.  :)

Best.

Hal
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html

Offline James Edward

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 779
Re: Stereo Subs Anyone?
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2023, 09:18:25 AM »
Yes Hal- not literally, but in the audiophile sense of having them disappear as a source but still contribute when the music dictates.
Luxman L- 590 AX MK2
Esoteric K-07X
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB
Audience Au24SE
PI Cat6
Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S
Stereo Hsu ULS-15 Mk2
Supra Classic 6.0

Offline James Edward

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 779
Re: Stereo Subs Anyone?
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2023, 03:42:09 PM »
Still tweaking… Had a couple of people over and they gave me some things to consider and things to try.
I had initially modeled my second sub settings on the initial one I had.
After careful analysis with an SPL meter and test tones, it became apparent that one sub had significantly louder db levels because of its placement in the room. I’m talking 10-11 db louder!
I addressed that, and the sound improved.
My guest also felt that a closer listening position sounded better- he was right, and my listening chair is now two feet closer to the speakers. I rarely listen ‘critically’, and rarely sit in this chair, but the difference was significant enough to make the change permanent.
Today, I broke out the meter again to experiment with phase settings… Much to my surprise, even though the subs are up front and facing the same way as the mains, the 180 degree phase setting had about a 2-3 db higher output than 0 degrees. I never expected that. I used tones just above and below 50Hz, where I have my sub’s crossover set.
I’d say the sub tweaking yielded 5-10 per cent better sound, and the chair movement, when listening critically, as much or more.
“We suffer for our craft,” as my guest jokingly said.
Luxman L- 590 AX MK2
Esoteric K-07X
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB
Audience Au24SE
PI Cat6
Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S
Stereo Hsu ULS-15 Mk2
Supra Classic 6.0

Offline James Edward

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 779
Re: Stereo Subs Anyone?
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2023, 03:49:06 PM »
I will add that perhaps the phase setting that I find counterintuitive is due to my open baffle speakers? The subs are basically 18” behind the mains, also toed in to the listening area, but at a little more of an angle.
Luxman L- 590 AX MK2
Esoteric K-07X
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB
Audience Au24SE
PI Cat6
Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S
Stereo Hsu ULS-15 Mk2
Supra Classic 6.0

Offline GDHAL

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2275
  • All we need is music, sweet music
Re: Stereo Subs Anyone?
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2023, 05:44:50 PM »
I'm pretty sure that there is no universally correct phase setting, because it can vary by virtue of the source recording (and other components). One phase setting should cause the woofer to move outward. The other or out of phase setting should cause the woofer to move inward. Absolute in phase is achieved when the microphone diaphragm moves inward and the speakers reproduce that by having their diaphragm move outward. There's no right or wrong per se and listener preference usually prevails. I'm just pointing out that don't be surprised if you find (hear) "better" bass with the phase set the opposite way you have it, with certain recording. I have the ability to invert phase with my DAC, but never do. I live with one setting, so I set it and forget it so to speak. But I know that ideally, I should change it every now and again, depending on what I'm listening to.

Glad to read your making improvements, experimenting, etc.  :)
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html