Author Topic: Extremely Rare SAS Audio Labs 10A Line Preamplifier Up for Sale on Ebay  (Read 8081 times)

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1261
Sorry late as dealing with mom's nursing home etc.

I found the 10A to be slightly light/thin in sound.

1. Changed the power supply decoupling cap for slightly more bass.
 
2. I am adding another stage of filtering, so 6 total stages. Using a very high efficiency horn and
powerful amp, one might detect a very slight 120 hz hum.

3. The buyer wants less gain, so I am setting up the output for approximately 9db of gain
rather than 21db of gain. The noise floor is reduced by another 12db.

The new owner doesn't want an IEC connector installed, although I can. The newer models already have
an IEC connector installed. No remote option. I could install a small value balance control in place of one
vol control so balance altered a few db.

I am almost thinking of resurrecting the 10A or 11A, but I only have the black 10A chassis and no silk screener
or other letterer. The price would almost certainly be higher as well.  I am pretty tired as it is though.

cheers

steve

« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 06:37:46 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4184
Sorry late as dealing with mom's nursing home etc.

I found the 10A to be slightly light/thin in sound.

1. Increase power supply decoupling cap for slightly more bass.
 
2. I am adding another stage of filtering, so 6 total stages. Using a very high efficiency horn and
powerful amp, one could detect a very slight 120 hz hum.

3. The buyer wants less gain, so I am setting up the output for approximately 9db of gain
rather than 21db of gain. The noise floor is reduced by another 12db.

The new owner doesn't want an IEC connector installed, although I can. The newer models already have
an IEC connector installed. No remote option. I could install a small value balance control in place of one
vol control so balance altered a few db.

I am almost thinking of resurrecting the 10A or 11A, but I only have the black 10A chassis and no silk screener
or other letterer. The price would be higher, but I don't think so.

cheers

steve

Interesting upgrades, Steve. I’m surprised that your client wouldn’t want an iec connection. If you were to resurrect the 10a and/or 11a, I would think you might lose some sales because of the lack of remote capability. As to no silk screening, you or your clients can have very nice plastic or metal pieces with a design made very inexpensively and they look great. I had a couple made up over the years and was very pleased. There is a guy over at AC that does them.
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Hattor Big preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Holo Cyan2 dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1261
Sorry late as dealing with mom's nursing home etc.

I found the 10A to be slightly light/thin in sound.

1. Increase power supply decoupling cap for slightly more bass.
 
2. I am adding another stage of filtering, so 6 total stages. Using a very high efficiency horn and
powerful amp, one could detect a very slight 120 hz hum.

3. The buyer wants less gain, so I am setting up the output for approximately 9db of gain
rather than 21db of gain. The noise floor is reduced by another 12db.

The new owner doesn't want an IEC connector installed, although I can. The newer models already have
an IEC connector installed. No remote option. I could install a small value balance control in place of one
vol control so balance altered a few db.

I am almost thinking of resurrecting the 10A or 11A, but I only have the black 10A chassis and no silk screener
or other letterer. The price would be higher, but I don't think so.

cheers

steve

Interesting upgrades, Steve. I’m surprised that your client wouldn’t want an iec connection. If you were to resurrect the 10a and/or 11a, I would think you might lose some sales because of the lack of remote capability. As to no silk screening, you or your clients can have very nice plastic or metal pieces with a design made very inexpensively and they look great. I had a couple made up over the years and was very pleased. There is a guy over at AC that does them.

Hi Nick,

I forgot to mention finding accurate poly capacitors. An IEC and different power cord doesn't make a difference in my
preamplifiers due to the complete isolation provided by my PS filter stages. I suppose there could be a sonic change due to L and R channel musical signal current return through pin 1 (ground wire) of the power cord, from component to component. But it is easy to minimize/eliminate.

Installing a remote would require a completely different chassis and cause sonic problems. There are plenty who don't care about having a remote.

I cannot email on AC, and limited posts.

cheers

steve

« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 06:48:13 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4184
Sorry late as dealing with mom's nursing home etc.

I found the 10A to be slightly light/thin in sound.

1. Increase power supply decoupling cap for slightly more bass.
 
2. I am adding another stage of filtering, so 6 total stages. Using a very high efficiency horn and
powerful amp, one could detect a very slight 120 hz hum.

3. The buyer wants less gain, so I am setting up the output for approximately 9db of gain
rather than 21db of gain. The noise floor is reduced by another 12db.

The new owner doesn't want an IEC connector installed, although I can. The newer models already have
an IEC connector installed. No remote option. I could install a small value balance control in place of one
vol control so balance altered a few db.

I am almost thinking of resurrecting the 10A or 11A, but I only have the black 10A chassis and no silk screener
or other letterer. The price would be higher, but I don't think so.

cheers

steve

Interesting upgrades, Steve. I’m surprised that your client wouldn’t want an iec connection. If you were to resurrect the 10a and/or 11a, I would think you might lose some sales because of the lack of remote capability. As to no silk screening, you or your clients can have very nice plastic or metal pieces with a design made very inexpensively and they look great. I had a couple made up over the years and was very pleased. There is a guy over at AC that does them.

Hi Nick,

I forgot to mention finding accurate poly capacitors. An IEC and different power cord doesn't make a difference in my
preamplifiers due to the complete isolation provided by my PS filter stages. I suppose there could be a sonic change due to L and R channel musical signal current return through pin 1 (ground wire) of the power cord, from component to component. But it is easy to minimize/eliminate.

Installing a remote would require a completely different chassis and cause sonic problems. There are plenty who don't care about having a remote.

I cannot email on AC, and limited posts.

cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

As to that iec, your excellent isolation design might well circumvent the need for a good power cord. I was one of those guys though who avoided buying Van Alstine products because he only offered a captive cord. When he finally changed his mind, I bought his AVA SET 120 amp which was quite good and a bargain for the money. As far as I know, my superb sounding Supratek preamp uses an Alps motorized pot. I would not have bought it …no matter how great it sounds… without remote capability. I can easily see a manual pot for a vinyl aficionado or one who plays one CD at a time. But I stream and the variation between the volume from disc to disc is quite a bit. Thank goodness I have a remote as I wouldn’t want to have to jump out of my chair each time so the neighbors wouldn’t be bothered.

I don’t know how doable it is for you to resurrect those preamps, but I’d think you’d sell enough as there are many like me who are very aware of the product line.

Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Hattor Big preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Holo Cyan2 dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1261
Sorry late as dealing with mom's nursing home etc.

I found the 10A to be slightly light/thin in sound.

1. Increase power supply decoupling cap for slightly more bass.
 
2. I am adding another stage of filtering, so 6 total stages. Using a very high efficiency horn and
powerful amp, one could detect a very slight 120 hz hum.

3. The buyer wants less gain, so I am setting up the output for approximately 9db of gain
rather than 21db of gain. The noise floor is reduced by another 12db.

The new owner doesn't want an IEC connector installed, although I can. The newer models already have
an IEC connector installed. No remote option. I could install a small value balance control in place of one
vol control so balance altered a few db.

I am almost thinking of resurrecting the 10A or 11A, but I only have the black 10A chassis and no silk screener
or other letterer. The price would be higher, but I don't think so.

cheers

steve

Interesting upgrades, Steve. I’m surprised that your client wouldn’t want an iec connection. If you were to resurrect the 10a and/or 11a, I would think you might lose some sales because of the lack of remote capability. As to no silk screening, you or your clients can have very nice plastic or metal pieces with a design made very inexpensively and they look great. I had a couple made up over the years and was very pleased. There is a guy over at AC that does them.

Hi Nick,

I forgot to mention finding accurate poly capacitors. An IEC and different power cord doesn't make a difference in my
preamplifiers due to the complete isolation provided by my PS filter stages. I suppose there could be a sonic change due to L and R channel musical signal current return through pin 1 (ground wire) of the power cord, from component to component. But it is easy to minimize/eliminate.

Installing a remote would require a completely different chassis and cause sonic problems. There are plenty who don't care about having a remote.

I cannot email on AC, and limited posts.

cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

As to that iec, your excellent isolation design might well circumvent the need for a good power cord. I was one of those guys though who avoided buying Van Alstine products because he only offered a captive cord. When he finally changed his mind, I bought his AVA SET 120 amp which was quite good and a bargain for the money. As far as I know, my superb sounding Supratek preamp uses an Alps motorized pot. I would not have bought it …no matter how great it sounds… without remote capability. I can easily see a manual pot for a vinyl aficionado or one who plays one CD at a time. But I stream and the variation between the volume from disc to disc is quite a bit. Thank goodness I have a remote as I wouldn’t want to have to jump out of my chair each time so the neighbors wouldn’t be bothered.

I don’t know how doable it is for you to resurrect those preamps, but I’d think you’d sell enough as there are many like me who are very aware of the product line.

Nick

Hi Nick,

The early versions of the 10A did not have an IEC, and this customer did not want me to install one
on his as he understands that it won't change the sound.

After the early version, I did install IECs standard due to customer demand. But then,
installing one does not affect the musical quality of my preamplifiers.
Other brands it will.

My designs are totally from scratch and unique, even if portions of the designs looks similar.
I tried the alps and you will Not find one in any of my products. Enough said.
 
If one wants the same old sounds (always missing the mark), there are plenty of other brands,
and the same old designs out there. Another reason why I retired. 

Of course with my pre, one less component that will alter the sound.
To maximize total performance of one's system, one will have to upgrade the rest of the
system. Synergy only helps to a point. Best to improve the rest of the system as well.

By the way, I just experimented again by installing a 12pf poly cap (12 x 10 to -12th) across a 50ufd
crossover capacitor (50 x 10 to -6th) and the sound zinged bright.

That is ~1 part in 4.1 million. If we relate to voltage change, that is -132db.
Typical +/- 0,1db from 20-20khz is only -54db. The -132db is 6200 times more sensitive; hence, the
incredible ear.

No wonder components sound different by different manufacturers.

steve



 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 06:54:55 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4184
Sorry late as dealing with mom's nursing home etc.

I found the 10A to be slightly light/thin in sound.

1. Increase power supply decoupling cap for slightly more bass.
 
2. I am adding another stage of filtering, so 6 total stages. Using a very high efficiency horn and
powerful amp, one could detect a very slight 120 hz hum.

3. The buyer wants less gain, so I am setting up the output for approximately 9db of gain
rather than 21db of gain. The noise floor is reduced by another 12db.

The new owner doesn't want an IEC connector installed, although I can. The newer models already have
an IEC connector installed. No remote option. I could install a small value balance control in place of one
vol control so balance altered a few db.

I am almost thinking of resurrecting the 10A or 11A, but I only have the black 10A chassis and no silk screener
or other letterer. The price would be higher, but I don't think so.

cheers

steve

Interesting upgrades, Steve. I’m surprised that your client wouldn’t want an iec connection. If you were to resurrect the 10a and/or 11a, I would think you might lose some sales because of the lack of remote capability. As to no silk screening, you or your clients can have very nice plastic or metal pieces with a design made very inexpensively and they look great. I had a couple made up over the years and was very pleased. There is a guy over at AC that does them.

Hi Nick,

I forgot to mention finding accurate poly capacitors. An IEC and different power cord doesn't make a difference in my
preamplifiers due to the complete isolation provided by my PS filter stages. I suppose there could be a sonic change due to L and R channel musical signal current return through pin 1 (ground wire) of the power cord, from component to component. But it is easy to minimize/eliminate.

Installing a remote would require a completely different chassis and cause sonic problems. There are plenty who don't care about having a remote.

I cannot email on AC, and limited posts.

cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

As to that iec, your excellent isolation design might well circumvent the need for a good power cord. I was one of those guys though who avoided buying Van Alstine products because he only offered a captive cord. When he finally changed his mind, I bought his AVA SET 120 amp which was quite good and a bargain for the money. As far as I know, my superb sounding Supratek preamp uses an Alps motorized pot. I would not have bought it …no matter how great it sounds… without remote capability. I can easily see a manual pot for a vinyl aficionado or one who plays one CD at a time. But I stream and the variation between the volume from disc to disc is quite a bit. Thank goodness I have a remote as I wouldn’t want to have to jump out of my chair each time so the neighbors wouldn’t be bothered.

I don’t know how doable it is for you to resurrect those preamps, but I’d think you’d sell enough as there are many like me who are very aware of the product line.

Nick

Hi Nick,

The early versions of the 10A did not have an IEC, and this customer did not want me to install one
on his.

After the early version, I did install IECs standard due to customer demand. But then,
installing one does not affect the musical quality of my preamplifiers.
Other brands it will.

My designs are totally unique, even if portions of the designs looks similar. I tried the alps
and you will Not find one in any of my products. Enough said.
 
If one wants the same old sounds (always missing the mark) there are plenty of other brands
the same old designs out there. Of course with my pre, one will have to upgrade the rest of the
system to maximize performance. Best would be to vertical one's system.

Another reason why I retired. 

By the way, I just experimented again by installing a 12pf poly cap (12 x 10 to -12th) across a 50ufd
crossover capacitor (50 x 10 to -6th) and the sound zinged bright. If we relate to voltage change,
20db change per decade, the bypass is -132db change min. No wonder components sound different,
even with the same specs used by different manufacturers.

That correlates with other minute changes in parts values in the crossover.

steve

Thanks, Steve. I think an iec is always a good idea as it gives customers a choice. As to that Alps pot, I’ve read a few negative comments here and there. Occasionally I look at owners comments regarding my Supratek Chardonnay. I don’t recall any owners suggesting a change to a different motorized pot. Maybe it is because of lack of room in the chassis. If I could get this great sounding preamp to sound even better, I would do it.

Do let us know what the final result is with your experiments.

Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Hattor Big preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Holo Cyan2 dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS