Author Topic: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers  (Read 13962 times)

Offline TopRound‎

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2022, 07:11:24 AM »
Are we really talking about this?

Finger tightening vs using a tool?

I find when I wear one red sock and one green sock on a Saturday with a full moon that it really helps lower the noise floor of my system, I can actually hear voices from the past it's so quiet. They keep saying old lottery numbers that won in the past.
System: Nothing....gave it all up, but building a few things for my kids...vinyl, tubes and Gan Fet!

Offline steve

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2022, 07:29:39 AM »
Are we really talking about this?

Finger tightening vs using a tool?


That is right Top. Systems do vary in sonic quality and sensitivity due to masking, so some won't notice
the bass changing. But as one can read the responses on this string, many if not most work with the
connectors to keep the resistance low, and damping factor, as stable as possible.

No surface is perfectly smooth, and tightening copper with a tool will minimize the resistance,
resistance fluctuations, and thus damping factor variations, as well as being gas tight. It is basic
science and physics.  You do not have to if you don't want to Top. No one is
forcing you or anyone else.

cheers

steve
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
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Offline TopRound‎

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2022, 07:50:03 AM »
Steve
you must realize that 99.99 percent of us audiophiles just finger tight things, some of us do have the tool to use on 5 way binding posts
and I have found they can be very effective at connecting very stiff or thick wires that want to move in the direction they please and have a difficult time staying put.

If so many of us are doing it one way then I think that becomes the norm

Maybe at our next gathering we will try this experiment and have everyone tighten it themselves then we'll use the torque wrench and see if we hear a difference.
Maybe it works to better things!

Can I ask a tech question of you?

I gave my son a Bottlehead kit for Xmas, can you recommend a solder that sounds good ?or is regular solder good enough?

Mike
System: Nothing....gave it all up, but building a few things for my kids...vinyl, tubes and Gan Fet!

Offline ejk

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2022, 08:20:10 AM »
Mike I dont want you to finger anything. Thats what she said
Aric Audio Super 6SN7 Line, Orchard Audio Starkrimson Ultra, Quicksilver Mid Monos, Lumin U2 Mini, Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1,Denafrips Iris DDC, Spatial Audio M3 Saphire, Hapa Audio Interconnects, TWL power cords, TWL speaker cables, Wireworld USB, i2s.

Offline TopRound‎

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2022, 08:22:58 AM »
System: Nothing....gave it all up, but building a few things for my kids...vinyl, tubes and Gan Fet!

Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2022, 08:59:25 AM »
@Steve, stop mixing apples with other audio edibles. First you bring capacitors into the frey, and now cleaning of contacts.

I was/am specific to one of your (ridiculous) statements which started this thread, quoted yet again for your and everyone else's convenience.

Finger tight is not enough. I noticed a musical difference at every session.

To that, I say/write (again), "bolderdash".

If I were at your place, using your gear/system, and I finger tight the connections, you will not hear a difference (all else equal) if you tighten further.

If you don't believe me and remain as obstinate as you are, I can add text that got me banned from AG having to do with betting money. If you want to go that route, you have my email address. Write me with your phone number. You and I can reach an agreement in principal to which I'll have my attorney contact yours. We will each need to deposit six figures into an escrow account. Winner take all. What do you say?

Best.

Hal

 8)
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html

Offline steve

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2022, 10:12:50 AM »
@Steve, stop mixing apples with other audio edibles. First you bring capacitors into the frey, and now cleaning of contacts.

I was/am specific to one of your (ridiculous) statements which started this thread, quoted yet again for your and everyone else's convenience.

Finger tight is not enough. I noticed a musical difference at every session.

To that, I say/write (again), "bolderdash".

If I were at your place, using your gear/system, and I finger tight the connections, you will not hear a difference (all else equal) if you tighten further.

If you don't believe me and remain as obstinate as you are, I can add text that got me banned from AG having to do with betting money. If you want to go that route, you have my email address. Write me with your phone number. You and I can reach an agreement in principal to which I'll have my attorney contact yours. We will each need to deposit six figures into an escrow account. Winner take all. What do you say?

Best.

Hal

 8)

The fact is that you are spreading ignorance disguised as hype. When your damping factor is
affected, the sound is affected. Disputing that fact is not helpful to the audio community, nor
to you.

It is sad, and also quite obvious why you were kicked out of another forum. My bet would be you
got kicked out of the forum not only for betting, but your ignorance of basic science.

No, mentioning cleaning was brought up by others on page 1. And it does affect the contact resistance
and damping, thus musical quality.

"If I were at your place, using your gear/system, and I finger tight the connections, you will not hear a difference (all else equal) if you tighten further."

Well of course you would say that. Are you going to argue against yourself.  :roll:
Your last paragraph mimics the quote you just used. Are you going to bet against yourself. Of course not.
So your wager is nothing more than a cheap trick. 

You also refused to answer either question concerning listening testing credibility, yet again. 

It is so sad to see someone starting an argument on a string that he/she understands virtually nothing about,
because it so negatively influences others who want to learn.

steve
« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 10:37:23 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline S Clark

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2022, 10:34:46 AM »
@Steve,...

To that, I say/write (again), "bolderdash".

If I were at your place, using your gear/system, and I finger tight the connections, you will not hear a difference (all else equal) if you tighten further.

If you don't believe me and remain as obstinate as you are, ...
Why is it so necessary to be rude.  You've made your point that you don't agree with him.  That's as far as you need go.   Clearly you don't think it matters... to your ears on your system
I've stopped telling people what they hear on their systems. 
C'mon.  It's Christmas.  Peace.
Speaker-GR Research LS9-XStatik-AltecFlamenco
Amp-Moscode,Dodd,Folsom
Pre-Dodd
Turntable-Vyger,Victor,TechnicSP10MK2
Phonopre-Hagermann,Jolida,GSlee   
Cable-AudioSensibility Wywires TWL
Cartridge-Dynavector,Sumiko
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2022, 10:46:57 AM »
@Steve,...

To that, I say/write (again), "bolderdash".

If I were at your place, using your gear/system, and I finger tight the connections, you will not hear a difference (all else equal) if you tighten further.

If you don't believe me and remain as obstinate as you are, ...
Why is it so necessary to be rude.  You've made your point that you don't agree with him.  That's as far as you need go.   Clearly you don't think it matters... to your ears on your system
I've stopped telling people what they hear on their systems. 
C'mon.  It's Christmas.  Peace.

Christmas 🎄. True that.

By the way I'm not telling anybody what they *claim* they can or cannot hear on their system. Instead,  I'm in this case willing to wager that they cannot hear what they ( in this case Steve specifically) claims he can hear.

The name of the science I'm speaking of is referred to as "science of legal tender". That particular science has an uncanny way of separating fiction from nonfiction. And, let's face it, as much as audiophilia is a hobby, it's also a business (albeit not for all).

At this stage of the thread, I'm interested in the business portion of it. Sorry if that comes across as "rude".

So far no PM.

Best

Hal

EDIT: oh and S Clark, "peace" is something I practice and celebrate every day, not just Christmas.

« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 10:55:33 AM by GDHAL »
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html

Offline steve

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2022, 11:55:31 AM »
@Steve,...

To that, I say/write (again), "bolderdash".

If I were at your place, using your gear/system, and I finger tight the connections, you will not hear a difference (all else equal) if you tighten further.

If you don't believe me and remain as obstinate as you are, ...
Why is it so necessary to be rude.  You've made your point that you don't agree with him.  That's as far as you need go.   Clearly you don't think it matters... to your ears on your system
I've stopped telling people what they hear on their systems. 
C'mon.  It's Christmas.  Peace.

Christmas 🎄. True that.

By the way I'm not telling anybody what they *claim* they can or cannot hear on their system. Instead,  I'm in this case willing to wager that they cannot hear what they ( in this case Steve specifically) claims he can hear.

The name of the science I'm speaking of is referred to as "science of legal tender".

That particular science has an uncanny way of separating fiction from nonfiction. And, let's face it, as much as audiophilia is a hobby, it's also a business (albeit not for all).

At this stage of the thread, I'm interested in the business portion of it. Sorry if that comes across as "rude".

So far no PM.

Best

Hal

EDIT: oh and S Clark, "peace" is something I practice and celebrate every day, not just Christmas.

The shilling possibility appears to be much more in your corner.

I have been retired, no manufacturing, for 10+ years. You have reviews somewhat prominent on
your website.

I have recommended competitors products such as Herron, Ultra-verve, Belles Refernce 350 amp.
I have no affiliation with them.
You have only recommended the components in Your system.

I have not had a website up for years. You have a large website with reviews of your
components somewhat prominent.

I have nothing to gain since I have not manufactured pre and amps for more than 10 years.
You have advertised, in no uncertain terms, that your 10K system beats 100k systems.

I would say gdhal, you are way ahead of me with the possibility of shilling. 

The "science of legal tender" he mentions is nothing more than dbt/abx testing,
possibly measurements which he has stated in several strings, including a deleted string.

His understanding of electronics is virtually zero, as evidenced of his continued evading
of any scientific answers, and asking the same questions over and over because of is lack
of understanding.

If you really want peace, you could have left the string after agreeing to disagree.

cheers

steve





 




« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 12:31:00 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2022, 12:26:26 PM »
If you really want peace, leave the string in agreeing to disagree.


Steve, at least in this thread you haven't misquoted me, except for the fact that I've stated elsewhere my system is $30k, not 10, competitive with $100k systems.

Fine, I agree to disagree.

Best. And Merry Christmas 🎄.

Hal

EDIT: just going on record to note that you revised your last post after I quoted you, Steve. No problem with that. You're certainly entitled to do so. But I'm entitled to notice  8)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 12:35:10 PM by GDHAL »
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html

Offline S Clark

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2022, 02:00:43 PM »
Speaker-GR Research LS9-XStatik-AltecFlamenco
Amp-Moscode,Dodd,Folsom
Pre-Dodd
Turntable-Vyger,Victor,TechnicSP10MK2
Phonopre-Hagermann,Jolida,GSlee   
Cable-AudioSensibility Wywires TWL
Cartridge-Dynavector,Sumiko
Tonearm-PioneerP3,Jelco
Rythmic sub

Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2022, 02:15:52 PM »


@S Clark

No.

A foolish heart will cause you grief and often make you curse. - Grateful Dead


GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html

Offline _Scotty_

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2022, 03:22:25 PM »
It should be noted that contact resistance is a function of surface area. The bigger the better. Increased pressure shouldn't affect the resistance that much unless it substantially flattens an irregular surface present on a contact.
 A milliohm meter is required to really gain insight into what is happening.
Without the proper instruments we are reduced to conjecture.
Milliohm Meters are very expensive unfortunately. I have not invested in one.
 Scotty

Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2022, 03:34:08 PM »
It should be noted that contact resistance is a function of surface area. The bigger the better. Increased pressure shouldn't affect the resistance that much unless it substantially flattens an irregular surface present on a contact.
 A milliohm meter is required to really gain insight into what is happening.
Without the proper instruments we are reduced to conjecture.
Milliohm Meters are very expensive unfortunately. I have not invested in one.
 Scotty

+1!

And, add to that whether or not one (as certain folks on this thread who shall remain nameless) can *hear* any difference!!

Hence the reason I propose(d) a terrific monetary opportunity for those who do have superhuman hearing.

 :rofl: 8) :rofl: 8) :rofl: 8)

Best.

Hal

p.s. lengthening or shortening your same speaker wire by one foot has MUCH more of an impact from a measurable (albeit that too not audible) perspective than tightening terminals beyond tightly/strongly applied bare finger strength.

 :lol:


« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 03:36:42 PM by GDHAL »
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html