Author Topic: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS  (Read 66568 times)

Offline Werd

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 813
  • Return of the Hot Librarians 2016
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2016, 12:51:28 PM »
My Chapter amp works but not through that conditioner. It only works plugged into the wall. That is what I meant to say. The thing turns on and functions to commands but no music...
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
Torus RM-20 240v

Gutwire, TWL, Wywires,

Offline P.I.

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 1953
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2016, 04:34:31 PM »
One thing that I am absolutely sure of is there are no absolutes in audio.  Overtime I try to find an application that is universal I come up with 1 or 9 reasons that it isn't.

The bottom line (HA!) is that what works, works.  Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason of it to do so.  This just tells us that all of those things we learned in school may not necessarily be applicable to what we are doing.  We tend to view everything simplistically. 

Let's just take one example:  Power cables

I do not pretend to understand everything that I think I know about electricity.  I know what they taught me in school.  Ohm's law ruled everything when I was a youngster. PIE, baby  :thumb:  I=V/R .  Unfortunately, that is just the beginning of the topic.  It is a topic to which I have found no end.

I remember some years ago when I was debating the topic of power cables on a well respected DIY forum. I remember being belittled for A: even thinking that a power cable could possibly make an audible change in SQ (sound quality).  After all, convention wisdom (which I generally find to be neither) dictated that if you had enough power that was ALL you need -B; the diameter of my cables.  I could not make ANYONE there understand the concepts of: conductor purity, geometry, inductance, capacitance, dielectric absorption, dissipation factor, insulator Q, termination quality, transmission line theory, connectors and on and on and on and on and..........

In the words of a now passed theoretical physicist friend of mine that was a mentor (and a "gasp" Christian) that made me think of reasons, purposes and solutions to problems:  "we don't REALLY, on a quantum level understand how all of this (the universe) works".  we have to understand what we do not understand.  That is wisdom and the quest of thinking people.

The beauty of forums like this is that we can share and do joint research on stuff that DOES NOT WORK.  This kind of thing saves money and more importantly time.  I will be 68 on the 25th and I want to keep learning, sharing and developing products that meet the needs of most people.  I don't purport to be so arrogant as to say that I have the SUPER DUPER DOO-DAH that meets everyones need.

Damn, wish I did.

Rock on, guys what works, works.  Keep on chooglin'...

 8)

D
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 12088
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2016, 07:57:25 AM »
I don't purport to be so arrogant as to say that I have the SUPER DUPER DOO-DAH that meets everyones need.

Damn, wish I did.



Damn, we wish you did too.......  :D


Some most valuable professional advise I ever got was from one of my professors in Engineering school.

He said the most important thing an engineer need to know is just what he does not know. And the most critical skill he needs to develop is the ability to admit that.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline dflee

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2016, 01:13:59 PM »
Dave could make that super duper doo dah, but nobody has invented the parts yet. (love the CCR reference)

Nit
"Enjoy pleasure, not because it is fleeting, but because it exists at all." Sacrament, Clive Barker.

Offline P.I.

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 1953
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2016, 08:25:28 PM »
Dave could make that super duper doo dah, but nobody has invented the parts yet. (love the CCR reference)

Nit
Im working on the parts.  I built a vey small flux capacitor.  I'm just trying to figure out how to not have to get it up to 88mph to work.  I'm close   |:D|
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 12088
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2016, 08:11:31 AM »
Dave could make that super duper doo dah, but nobody has invented the parts yet. (love the CCR reference)

Nit
Im working on the parts.  I built a vey small flux capacitor.  I'm just trying to figure out how to not have to get it up to 88mph to work.  I'm close   |:D|

I know this is somewhat off the topic, but for anyone who is interested, the DeLorean DMC-12 will be goong back into production for a limited run in 2017 (minus the flux capacitor of course....)

http://www.motortrend.com/news/great-scott-delorean-motor-company-to-build-dmc-12-replicas-by-2017/
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Online HAL

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1318
  • Audio Mad Scientist
    • Hollis Audio Labs
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2016, 01:01:11 PM »
Got my update from Dave that my DigiBUSS is on the way.

 :beer:

Offline Werd

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 813
  • Return of the Hot Librarians 2016
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2016, 05:08:17 PM »
Dave could make that super duper doo dah, but nobody has invented the parts yet. (love the CCR reference)

Nit
Im working on the parts.  I built a vey small flux capacitor.  I'm just trying to figure out how to not have to get it up to 88mph to work.  I'm close   |:D|

It needs Uranium from Libya or else it is a no go.
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
Torus RM-20 240v

Gutwire, TWL, Wywires,

Offline Werd

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 813
  • Return of the Hot Librarians 2016
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2016, 05:10:21 PM »
Every conditioner needs a flux capacitor to work right.  :thumb:
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
Torus RM-20 240v

Gutwire, TWL, Wywires,

Offline Werd

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 813
  • Return of the Hot Librarians 2016
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2016, 05:36:48 PM »
No seriously, there are absolutes in audio. One is running a 240v for an audio system. Or at least multiple 15 amp services. Its the same reason why you can not run a stove on 120V. The power to run out all elements and stove heat is not capable on  120V. Powering a system is about overkill. If you are going to run a conditioner it may as well be in 240V to accommodate that. Everything will work fed 120V but really should be in front of a transformer. There is a ratio though and the conditioner needs to dwarf the VA power ahead of it. Or else its gets gimped. Then i agree, since the local transformer will be overkill (if you are close enough to it). Then it might better running multiple 15 amp dedicated services.
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
Torus RM-20 240v

Gutwire, TWL, Wywires,

Offline P.I.

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 1953
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2016, 09:28:48 PM »
I absolutely agree  :) that having adequate power is an absolute when it comes to great SQ.  I guess that make my "no absolutes" post absolutely wrong.

Absolutely.

Systems have to have adequate power to live AND breathe.  Without it there can't be the unrestrained dynamics (Micro and macro) that we demand from our systems.  This is why I suggest 4 - 20A circuits for best results.  Getting them all on the same branch circuit is hard, but they HAVE to live at the same ground potential and on the same "phase' (although that isn't necessarily what it seems.  To be effective one is for the front end, one for the amps, one for digital and one for subs.  If we had current and spaces in the panel to burn I could break it down farther.  Seeing how this is stretching it, even in new construction, I recommend one for analog and one for digital.  That way we can address the weirdnesses of each unto their own.

I remember when I got my first dedicated circuit back in the late '80s.  It was amazing! Life was somehow simpler then.  :)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 10:30:40 PM by P.I. »
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline Werd

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 813
  • Return of the Hot Librarians 2016
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2016, 06:28:14 AM »
I prefer one for amplification and one for source. You can have analogue or digital on the same line assuming one is turned off.

It makes me wonder if  every 15 amp circuit should have only a single transformer on it? Or at least one big one. This is why I think transformer based conditioners in 240V are good in front of source gear. I admit this is conjecture but I don't think current is readily availabe to multiple transformers,  even if they are rated way under 15 amp VA power on one line. I think it has to do with hertz and what the local transformer can deliver. Or what the local thinks is on that 15 amp circuit. It may only delivery current to what it sees as the highest VA transformer. This is why we have brown outs on circuits that should not happen. Like when when we turn something on and a lamp will dim in an area where the power is stiff.

If we put a huge 240v transformer it immediately plays boss and becomes the dominating tranformer on the circuit and the local one does not care what is behind it.
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
Torus RM-20 240v

Gutwire, TWL, Wywires,

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 12088
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2016, 07:29:00 AM »
No seriously, there are absolutes in audio. One is running a 240v for an audio system. Or at least multiple 15 amp services. Its the same reason why you can not run a stove on 120V. The power to run out all elements and stove heat is not capable on  120V. Powering a system is about overkill. If you are going to run a conditioner it may as well be in 240V to accommodate that. Everything will work fed 120V but really should be in front of a transformer. There is a ratio though and the conditioner needs to dwarf the VA power ahead of it. Or else its gets gimped. Then i agree, since the local transformer will be overkill (if you are close enough to it). Then it might better running multiple 15 amp dedicated services.

There is no reason whatsoever that you couldn't run an electric stove on 120v. The reason that the are built to run on 240v circuits is simply cost. A self cleaning electric range requires a minimum of a 40 A 240v circuit. This means you need to wire it to the breaker box with -8-3 Romex which costs $1.80 /Ft. If you were to run the stove on 120v power it would pull 80 amps which would require you to wire it with 2-3 Romex which costs $9.70 a ft and in addition to the added cost id much heavier and more difficult to run i the tight inside the wall type spaces use to route electric wire in residential buildings. And in addition to that if wiring within the stove would need to be bulked up to carry the amperage that would be pulled in a 120v operation and that would increase the cost of the stove as well. So a stove would run perfectly fine at 120v, it just save a whole lot of money to run it at 240.

That said In the case of audio there is an advantage to using balanced power (a 240 volt circuit stepped down to 120 rather than just one phase referenced to ground) The common mode noise rejection of the balanced feed is much greater than that of a split phase circuit, and and that is why it sounds better. Unlike the case of a stove that just wants a big push, there is a big advantage in audio in having less noise in the incoming A/C power, which is why we use devices like the Uberbuss. But it only stands to reason that the less noise we put into the conditioner to start the better results we can expect.

But of course nothing is ever free because when adding step down transformers we will then need to deal with issues such the heat and mechanical vibrations they generate and other electrical issues related to transformers like core saturation.  Not that any of them have to be a game stopper, but they just add another layer of complexities that need to be dealt with.   
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 12088
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2016, 07:35:11 AM »
I prefer one for amplification and one for source. You can have analogue or digital on the same line assuming one is turned off.


I absolutely agree about having separate circuits for power amps. (Especially big ones like the ARC VT-200  :D)

When you think about it this is just an extension of why we have separate pre and power amps, so that any big transient draws by the power amp section with not starve the pre amp of the power it needs to operate.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline Werd

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 813
  • Return of the Hot Librarians 2016
Re: PIAUDIO DIGIBUSS
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2016, 08:03:12 AM »
Of course you can run a stove on 120V. You can even put a neutral on it for all the clocks and lights you want. All you will be cooking is Kraft Dinner.  :rofl:. If you want even heat on all elements and stove you need the dual phase current.
Nola Viper Reference iii, Nola Blue Thunder Subs, Chapter Couplet 400s, Chapter Précis 250 integrated set to pre, Bryston BDA2/BDP1.
Torus RM-20 240v

Gutwire, TWL, Wywires,