Author Topic: Re: Dave's IC's  (Read 93270 times)

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #150 on: March 07, 2014, 01:04:28 PM »
It is mostly the copper Nexgens that have a rep for being a bit on the bright/fatiguing side.

The WBT/Mundorf are silver/gold alloy conductors and this changes everything. Every other RCA plug I have used so far cannot compete, the WBT is just more accurate and detailed without being harsh, edgy or adding anything that could construed as causing listening fatigue.

The Furutech Carbon Fiber plugs are very good but I'm not sure rhodium plating works that well on RCA plugs... it tends to dominate the sound and is very clearly audible, and can accentuate sibilance which the WBT does not do. They sound quite different from the FP-101s I am currently using, and are more than double the price, but I think the 101s are actually more neutral and more forgiving than the CF-102s.

The Neotech rhodium plated UPOCC copper RCAs build quality and bulkiness eliminate it from consideration, it sounds good, maybe as good as the CF-102s, but I just can't put that huge, heavy POS on my cables.

In any case, I stand by my choice of the Furutech FP-101 as the best RCA plug for the money, it is very clear, neutral and detailed. The WBT is certainly better but over 2x the price.


DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #151 on: March 07, 2014, 04:19:03 PM »
rollo, it would be nice for you to check out the D3s after Bryan and Mike since you have my other cables.

The D3 is much more neutral, detailed and has more realistic tonality compared to the DD. It actually blows it away imo, not even close. The DD is a nice sounding cable but in direct comparison with the D3 it is not very accurate, detail is missing and the tone is a bit off.

The D3s are beating out every cable they have been compared to so far, including just recently a set of $4500 Nordost Valhallas. A lot of very good and very expensive cables have been replaced by D3s. The worst review I have got so far was "very similar to my top of the line VH Audio interconnect..." (VH Audio wires/cables are manufactured by Neotech)

And the D4 is on the way.... UPOCC silver ground wires and probably the Mundorf silver/gold RCAs. It'll be 2-3x the price of the D3 but the performance is jaw-dropping. A serious improvement over the D3. It may be an 8-strand helical litz array, wound around a cotton core for damping, but I need to do more testing to see if the geometry yields enough of an improvement to justify a much more complicated design that can't be done by hand....

Anyway, I am pretty excited because it seems like there is no limit to the improvements I can make so far. With the D4 a ceiling may be reached though, there is no amount of cash that will be able to improve it.... design yes, but the D4 will have the best of the best parts with no regard to cost. And it will be under $1500.


DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #152 on: March 09, 2014, 04:53:14 PM »
Hi pmkap, it's really not bad except being hard to get solder to stick to it... both the body and pin need to be extremely hot to get solder to stick.

And while the plug isn't bad by any means when you directly compare it to the Furutech it's a night and day difference. The Furutech has 2 set screws so solder is not needed, a non-magnetic SS/carbon fiber locking collet, and it looks and feels like a precision instrument.

The WBT also has a much more precise feel and the solder tabs on the nexgens are really nice and very easy to solder to. Overall build quality is better in both Furutech and WBT.

The Neotech also may have a rhodium plated upocc copper ground but it's pressed into a gold plated brass carrier, which seems like a design flaw...

These are all nice connectors and but for me I would take the WBT/Mundorf silver/gold Nexgen if they aren't too expensive and Furutech FP-101(G) if you want something cheaper.

Right now it's looking like there will be a D4 with the Mundorf RCAs and UPOCC silver returns.  :thumb:  The design of the cable itsself is not finalized though, not sure if it'll be hand built or machine built right now...

Fancy geometry and cable design doesn't mean much if it can't beat simpler designs, and while a more complicated geometry has theoretical advantages, that doesn't matter much unless there is a clear real-life advantage, i.e. it sounds better.  :lol: 






DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #153 on: March 10, 2014, 09:00:26 AM »
I swear I'm not imagining that pmkap asked why I didn't like the Neotech RCA plugs....  :?

Offline Maxima95

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #154 on: March 10, 2014, 03:26:48 PM »
He did.  He questioned your characterization of it as a POS.

Neotech seems to be famous (infamous?) for poor construction (e.g., AC connectors) but excellent performance.

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #155 on: March 10, 2014, 06:12:47 PM »
Yeah, Neotech focuses on wire and cable, that is their main business. The connectors they make do sound good but I'm not sure Neotech is too worried about keeping up with offerings from other companies that specialize in accessories.




Offline Maxima95

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #156 on: March 10, 2014, 07:44:20 PM »
Dave - Did you ever try the Xhadows?  If so, how did they stack up with the others?

This is getting very interesting. When geometry, strand count and other issues get resolved re: the prospective D4, would your basis for comparison (baseline) be a D3 conductor with UPOCC silver returns and the Mundorf RCAs?

One "notch" down might be the current D3 with the Mundorf RCAs.  How does this version compare to those with silver returns?

My intent is not to ensnare you in permutations and inundate you with questions.  I was just curious about the most worthwhile tiers as this evolves.

Re: the 101(g)s, it's good to know how they fit in with the others and that they provide high value (like the 126(g) does among it's peers).

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #157 on: April 15, 2014, 07:23:24 PM »
Update:

I have built the first D4 XLR cables, these were ordered with the Furutech CF-600 series plugs... I know some people think they are overpriced, but the stainless steel housing with the carbon fiber inlay is really beautiful and adds dampingm otherwise they are very similar to the FP-600s that have a brass housing. My D4 XLR will normally be built with the FP connectors, one gold plated and one rhodium plated, the CF connectors are a $200 upgrade and only come in rhodium.

The single ended D4s will have the Mundorf RCAs and only one signal leg of course...

Xhadow plugs are really nice but 2 issues... one is silver tarnishes and needs to be cleaned, 2nd, the plating isn't as pure as upocc silver and it does sound like it. This is subtle and not to big of a deal, but I do feel the FP-101s are a less likely to cause listening fatigue. Overall, the FP-101 is more neutral and for my cables I feel they are the best choice although I would like to try the Xhadows on a DD cable, I think they will work better there. If you want a brighter plug than the 101 and don't want to spend $400 on the Mundorfs then the Xhadows are a good choice as well. But the Mundorfs are really just better than anything else available imo.

I do think a D3 cable with the Mundorf RCAs would also be a good choice, maybe a D3.5...  :lol:  

Right now there are pretty huge jumps in performance from 1 to 4, so just adding the Mundorf RCAs isn't quite enough for them to have their own model, but as an upgrade for the D3 it's a good idea and would be a very obvious improvement.









Offline Carlman

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #158 on: April 23, 2014, 06:45:02 PM »
Just checking in... Is this still a tour? Did it end?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 06:51:58 PM by Carlman »
I really enjoy listening to music.

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #159 on: April 23, 2014, 07:06:09 PM »
It did just end, yes. Bryan is sending the cables back to me so lets call it done.

I am willing to send demos to AN members if they wish to try them and there are 2 tours still going on at AC.

I appreciate everyone who participated, thanks!  :thumb:



Offline Carlman

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #160 on: April 24, 2014, 05:57:25 AM »
Awesome.  I'll leave this open for any additional comments this week...

Start a new topic/thread for how to sign up for demos or any other options you want to share with folks.

FYI, Some members have expressed an interest in having a review section of this site... If you don't object I'd like to use the reviews here.

Update... I tried adding review forums here and didn't like it.  I'm going to do some more thinking before doing a review section.

Thanks,
Carl
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 06:54:38 AM by Carlman »
I really enjoy listening to music.