Author Topic: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A  (Read 14094 times)

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 05:45:01 PM »
11A is same league as AR Ref, VAC, VTL. You feel it wash though you, it's not just a sound. When you get into this class, preamp becomes the most important piece in the system, not just a volume control. You can feel its presence even with less than transparent amps and speakers. I fought it long and hard, but have finally surrendered to the god of preamp magic. I hope one falls out of heaven now. haha

Steve says it doesn't color the sound, very true, but compared to straight wire it makes a great improvement. Still colorless, but presence and immediacy is very palpable. IT'S ALIIIIIVE!  :D
Rich

Ray Bronk

  • Guest
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2008, 06:05:09 PM »
11A is same league as AR Ref, VAC, VTL. You feel it wash though you, it's not just a sound. When you get into this class, preamp becomes the most important piece in the system, not just a volume control. You can feel its presence even with less than transparent amps and speakers. I fought it long and hard, but have finally surrendered to the god of preamp magic. I hope one falls out of heaven now. haha

Steve says it doesn't color the sound, very true, but compared to straight wire it makes a great improvement. Still colorless, but presence and immediacy is very palpable. IT'S ALIIIIIVE!  :D
Rich

Maybe, someday, when I have the moola, I will get one of them 11A's. Also, in that same price bracket is the one from Hugh Dean.

Ray

Offline Bunky

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2008, 07:03:04 PM »
The 11A really is exceptional and i had one in my tube powered rig for a few weeks. The 10A is a very neutral and musical tube linestage and a unbelievable value when you look at the cost Vs performance aspect. I could easily afford a more expensive preamp but the 10A is so nice i figure why bother ? thanks....WCW III
Remember, information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music; music is the best.
-- Frank Zappa

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6982
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2008, 09:41:53 AM »
  Very similiar to C.A.T. but for a lot less money. This 11A will sing with a warm or dark tube amp. Great synergy. Try one with a CJ amp or 300B, 211, 2A3 or similiar based amps. Killer IMO.

rollo
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2008, 09:56:23 AM »
Hi Rollo,

Didn't know you got to hear one. Also sounds surperb with the Belles new reference 350 ss amp, Monarchy se250, Mono Extremes, Dussan (amp section), and other ss amps as well as with PP tube amps. Pretty versatile and neutral/transparent.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 06:28:08 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline Carlman

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2008, 02:26:22 PM »
Maybe, someday, when I have the moola, I will get one of them 11A's. Also, in that same price bracket is the one from Hugh Dean.
Ray

There's a slew of preamps in that range... modified, tweaky, obscure, and mainstream... Once you get over 2,k the options seem endless.  I hope Hugh's doing well... I had a great time with him at RMAF.
I really enjoy listening to music.

Ray Bronk

  • Guest
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2008, 02:35:42 PM »
Maybe, someday, when I have the moola, I will get one of them 11A's. Also, in that same price bracket is the one from Hugh Dean.
Ray

There's a slew of preamps in that range... modified, tweaky, obscure, and mainstream... Once you get over 2,k the options seem endless.  I hope Hugh's doing well... I had a great time with him at RMAF.

Hi, I was thinking about the Aspen preamps that Hugh Deanm from Australia makes.

Ray

Offline Carlman

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2008, 07:03:50 PM »
yeah, me too... same guy.. I had separate thoughts and put them all in one paragraph...  :duh
I really enjoy listening to music.

Ray Bronk

  • Guest
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2008, 12:03:21 AM »
yeah, me too... same guy.. I had separate thoughts and put them all in one paragraph...  :duh

Hi, Well, now that I've hijacked this thread momentarily, ... I wonder what the differences in sound between the SAS 11A and the Swift Preamp is? Thanks Steve.

Ray

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2008, 06:32:10 AM »
yeah, me too... same guy.. I had separate thoughts and put them all in one paragraph...  :duh

Hi, Well, now that I've hijacked this thread momentarily, ... I wonder what the differences in sound between the SAS 11A and the Swift Preamp is? Thanks Steve.

Ray

Hi Ray,

     You mean the GK1 preamp? If so, I doubt it. The distortion is fairly high, the FR is quite poor.

Distortion is -42db down 2nd harmonic vs approx -74db for either the 10A or 11A

-3db down at 15hz and 80khz vs approx -.1db down at 20hz and approx -1db down at 110khz (100pf load) for either the 10A or 11A.

The former stat, -3db at 15hz is particularly troublesome as using parts to artifically boost the lows also means a boost into the midrange sonics.

Gotta go.
Steve
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline Carlman

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2008, 07:10:10 AM »
Since I haven't heard it, I can't really comment... just speculate. ;)
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2008, 12:34:23 PM »
I probably should have started a new string concerning specs, but since it was asked. There is an old saying that if the specs measure good, the sound can be good or poor, but if the specs are poor, the sound suffers or is never optimum. One can kinda get away with some specs, but FR is pretty important. Even 1% distortion (-40db) seems high.

Based on decades of experience and testing, there are sonic problems especially associated with FR deviations. Since the signal is down approx -3db, an accurate output would also be down that amount. So if the bass seems sufficient, the actual design itself is not the problem, but the parts, solder etc selection.

"Boosting" the sound in the bass region with parts etc, to fill out the sound, is not an accurate boost since the parts have different characteristics than an actual string/electric bass, cello etc and has different characteristics.

For example, the winding construction, DA, DF, termination, etc affects the sound of a capacitor, with some capacitors artificially excentuating the bass. This can easily be demonstrated by using an electrolytic or even mylar capacitor in the circuit design.

However, the distortion/bloating of the bass is not limited to just the bass region. It also occurs throughout the bandwidth that the inferior capacitor has to handle. So the upper bass, lower mids, mids etc are also affected, and distorted.

A little story. I have heard old amps/preamps using electrolytics that sound relatively thin because of the use of small coupling caps to minipulate the mids, but then the bass suddenly whops one over the head because it is so fat/bloated/distorted. All because of the electrolytic cap(s) in the circuit.

Anyway, one can tell at a moments internal peek, either of specs or peeking inside, if there are design/parts problems or not.

Hope this helps.




« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 05:49:09 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

tanchiro58

  • Guest
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2008, 02:22:22 PM »
Hi Steve,

I am a newbie in this forum and have read your threads and like very much your theory of building a good tube preamp since I am a tube gear fan too. I have a strange question about the substitution of 6922 tube which are PCC 189. So far I heard only one of my friend he replaced the 6922s in his AN DAC with PCC189. Have you considered to try the PCC189 in your SAS preamp yet? I also heard someone said in another forum that you can not directly substituted PCC189 for 6922, is that true? Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Tan

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Tube rolling in the SAS Audiolabs 10A
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2008, 04:19:38 PM »
Hi Steve,

I am a newbie in this forum and have read your threads and like very much your theory of building a good tube preamp since I am a tube gear fan too. I have a strange question about the substitution of 6922 tube which are PCC 189. So far I heard only one of my friend he replaced the 6922s in his AN DAC with PCC189. Have you considered to try the PCC189 in your SAS preamp yet? I also heard someone said in another forum that you can not directly substituted PCC189 for 6922, is that true? Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Tan


Hi Tan,

     Unfortunately, the PCC 189 will not work as the heater voltage required is 7.6 volts whereas the 6922 is 6.3 volts. The cathode just won't heat enough. With respect to the 10A, don't get hung up on a particular tube. The design makes ALL the difference.

Take care and thanks for the question Tan.
Steve
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 08:38:26 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers