Lets Talk About Digital or Switching Amps

[Nick B]

Anyway... I think I'm the only one that doesn't care for the CIA D200's or D100's... They're like fingernails on a chalkboard to me...

No, you not....

I have the D200's and have been reasonably pleased with them, albeit with reservations about a sometimes harsh top end. However, those little rascals are sounder much better with the addition of the Black Sand  SR MK V for my modded SB 2 power supply as I posted in another thread. More Black Sand cords are on the way for the D200's and that should smooth things out even more. I'd still like to try a tube amp again after 15 years of ss sound, but there's no way to make that happen right now
Nick

[Woodsyi]

I use eAR 1001s (ICE) to drive my woofers from 50 Hz to 280 Hz.  They are great at controlling 10" woofers at this frequency range.

[bpape]

Absolutely.  I have no problem with most of them in the bottom end.  It's the upper middle and top where they're just a bit on edge and cold IMO.

Bryan

[richidoo]

The hypex type and I assume the others also have extremely low output impedence, <0.01 ohms Making clear powerful, high current bass easy. That's why I was first attracted to them with the Legacys.

[rollo]

Absolutely.  I have no problem with most of them in the bottom end.  It's the upper middle and top where they're just a bit on edge and cold IMO.

Bryan

Bryan,
            I will agree that the upper midrange and top end is similar to early CD. The chip amps have great potential and some are very good. Time will allow this new technology to blossom as did the CD. I hope it does as the design can be very cost affective and a blessing to our Nervosa.
           IMO they are the future. However with the time it took CD to sound right were in for a long haul. For now It appears to me that RWA has the edge at this time. Vinnie does some good things with the Sing. 70. With a tubed Pre a nice combo.

rollo

[richidoo]

The new UcD based 500 watt amps from CIA will be at RMAF. They use two UcD400s each instead of the new UcD700.

[bpape]

A buddy of mine has the Audio Research 'digital' amp.  If you didn't know it was a digital design, you'd never know listening to it.  It's the one so far that I thought I could live with.  That said, I haven't heard the Rowlands which are also supposed to be very good.

Bryan

[shep]

My experience (very limited so far to one man's "interpretation"/implementation (M. Mardis) is that they are VERY dependant on what surrounds them, parts-wise. My Trends was the first to be totally rebuilt with this in mind and within its power limitation, was stunning from top to bottom. The second one (that fried my CDP)  was even better. The third is in the works and make take a radical approach using transformers instead of op amps or tubes. This will merit a full scale review when it appears at my door and is suitable run. I'm a believer!

[Rocket]

Hi,

I've recently heard the nuforce ref 9se v2 amps and they sounded very good.  The dealer informed me that you need to use a pretty good preamp to get the best out of them.

I also have a ps audio hca - 2 that I have modded to very high levels.  I also have a spread spectrums technologies 'son of ampzilla' as well and the SOA is just a little bit better in my system.  It depends what you want.  I thought the hca - 2 was pretty good when the signal caps were replaced with blackgates.

Regards

Rod

[Black Sand Cable]

On the digital amp side, did you guys see this one?

http://www.axiomaudio.com/A1400-8.html

I have owned a few Axiom speakers that ended up not being my thing but the company is outstanding to deal with. I was curious to hear this amp when I first heard about it, but the price listed more then kills my curiosity! For $3850.00 there are a few other amps I would try first.

[FredT]

One characteristic of the Ice power amps is they are more of a commodity than traditional class A/AB amps. Each manufacturer's class A/AB amps are unique. For example, a 135 watt class A/AB Rotel will be a different circuit design from a similar Parasound or any other brand.

Not so with the Class D Ice power amps. If you look inside the case you will find the amplifer circuits are identical across brands. They are the same ICEPower modules, all bought as completed units from the ICE power manfacturer and installed in the seller's own case. The only differences appear to be in the case, the connectors, and the fact that some add a proprietary input buffer because of the ICE power module's relatively low 10K input impedance. So if I'm not mistaken the Jeff Rowland Model 102 uses the same amplifier circuit as the Cary CAA-1, the Bel Canto e.One S300, the PS Audio Trio 100 and D-Sonic Magnum 250S, and several others.

This is good news for the value-shopper who doesn't wish to pay for an expensive case and other upscale fatures. He can buy essentially the same amp for quite a bit less, especially from one of the internet direct sellers.

http://www.jeffrowland.com/M102-detail.htm
http://www.caryaudio.com/graphics/products/concept/CAA1/CAA1_inside_800.jpg
http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_eOneS300.html
http://www.psaudio.com/products/trio_a100.asp
http://www.d-sonic.net/i/M200S_small.jpg
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/

[miklorsmith]

Nice first post.

Welcome aboard!   

[rollo]

One characteristic of the Ice power amps is they are more of a commodity than traditional class A/AB amps. Each manufacturer's class A/AB amps are unique. For example, a 135 watt class A/AB Rotel will be a different circuit design from a similar Parasound or any other brand.

Not so with the Class D Ice power amps. If you look inside the case you will find the amplifer circuits are identical across brands. They are the same ICEPower modules, all bought as completed units from the ICE power manfacturer and installed in the seller's own case. The only differences appear to be in the case, the connectors, and the fact that some add a proprietary input buffer because of the ICE power module's relatively low 10K input impedance. So if I'm not mistaken the Jeff Rowland Model 102 uses the same amplifier circuit as the Cary CAA-1, the Bel Canto e.One S300, the PS Audio Trio 100 and D-Sonic Magnum 250S, and several others.

This is good news for the value-shopper who doesn't wish to pay for an expensive case and other upscale fatures. He can buy essentially the same amp for quite a bit less, especially from one of the internet direct sellers.

http://www.jeffrowland.com/M102-detail.htm
http://www.caryaudio.com/graphics/products/concept/CAA1/CAA1_inside_800.jpg
http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_eOneS300.html
http://www.psaudio.com/products/trio_a100.asp
http://www.d-sonic.net/i/M200S_small.jpg
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/

   

 Fred,
           A warm welcome. Can we call you Sherlock Holmes? Just kidding. Wow! Who knew? Great info. Thats the kind of stuff we need to know. Amazing1

rollo

[FredT]

Nice first post.
Welcome aboard!   

Many thanks. Last months the topic for the Houston Audio Society was an A/B comparison of a class D amp, the D-Sonic Magnum 200S, to a class A/AB solid state amp, a Rotel 1080. We found the class D amp was more transparent, but it had a bit more "edge" with some recordings. The difference were subtle but audible. If I had an already bright system, especially an inexpensive system with a lower quality digital source, I would choose the Rotel for its more polite presentation. For my present system, which isn't overly bright and has good but not ridiculously expensive components and very good DIY speakers, I would choose the D-Sonic.

In fact, I did. Dennis Deacon (the D in D-Sonic) was our presenter, and he let me borrow the Magnum 200S to hear it for a week in my system. I preferred its transparency and bass control to the class A Monarchy SM-70's and the Audio Mirror SET monoblocks I've been using, and I ordered one if his 525 watt (1 KW into 4 ohms) Magnum 1000S stereo amps. It is scheduled for assembly on Monday. So everybody be aware I have a positive bias toward class D IcePower amps, especially Dennis' D-Sonics, and consider my posts with this in mind. 

[richidoo]

Looking forward to a biased, highly favorable, shameless plug review on the D Sonic from you Fred! hahaha     I like ICEpower amps, they all sound similar and very good... The new CIA D500 (based on 2 hypex UcD400's in parallel - I think) sounded good at RMAF, too. Nice to have you here - you have a nice writing style. Welcome!
Rich