Author Topic: Cryoing and Crystals  (Read 7047 times)

Offline BobM

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Cryoing and Crystals
« on: March 17, 2013, 05:35:40 AM »
I've been breaking in some new cryoed tubes for my preamp (Russian Rocket Logo 6922's). The most noticeable change from the cryoing is the tube is far more open and punchy than the non-cryoed version (I cryoed 2 sets and kept 1 set home so I could directly compare).

At 50 hours the cryoed tubes were still overly forward and harsh, but now at 90 hrs they have smoothed out and are developing a nice midrange again. Hoping another 50 hrs will smooth things out even more.

I also have some of those crystals sitting in my breaker box on top of the breaker feeding the system. I remember Charles and Pete saying sometimes this is too much, so I pulled this off the breaker and a lot of the "too much of a good thing" tizzy top end went away. Funny how things have to balance out "just so" and sometimes you have to remove a tweak to make that balance happen.
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Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2013, 07:41:24 AM »
A "balance" is key...

The same thing holds true for power conditioning... you can "overdo" treating your incoming electrical power with too much power conditioning, whether it be a combined balanced power set-up with regeneration and/or traditional filtering, PFC, etc...

It's like the JC Whitney Catalog syndrome... if purchased all those add-ons / tweaks for your car, your automobile would have 1000 HP and get 100 MPG at the same time... It just doesn't work...

Listen carefully, my friend...  :rofl:
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2013, 07:43:41 AM »
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2013, 07:56:42 AM »
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
Cambridge D-500SE CDP
Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
T.W.L

Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2013, 09:43:27 AM »
A "balance" is key...

The same thing holds true for power conditioning... you can "overdo" treating your incoming electrical power with too much power conditioning, whether it be a combined balanced power set-up with regeneration and/or traditional filtering, PFC, etc...

It's like the JC Whitney Catalog syndrome... if purchased all those add-ons / tweaks for your car, your automobile would have 1000 HP and get 100 MPG at the same time... It just doesn't work...

Listen carefully, my friend...  :rofl:

Hi Pete

That is awesome. I remember those JC Whitney Catalogs when I wanted to have my Dad's 76 Pontiac Grand Prix all suped up. It already had a huge engine and got 8 miles to a gallon. After thinking about the Supercharger etc mileage would have been even worse.

Back to the audio stuff.

Does cryoing of tubes matter more with preamp or driver tubes vs. Power tubes? Also is there a location on LI or place where I can have existing tubes cryoed? I bought some power tubes that I like with my gear that I may want cryoed. As for those crystals I'm just not a believer. Myabe they are damping vibrations like those Herbies IC rings?

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2013, 09:55:47 AM »
A "balance" is key...

The same thing holds true for power conditioning... you can "overdo" treating your incoming electrical power with too much power conditioning, whether it be a combined balanced power set-up with regeneration and/or traditional filtering, PFC, etc...

It's like the JC Whitney Catalog syndrome... if purchased all those add-ons / tweaks for your car, your automobile would have 1000 HP and get 100 MPG at the same time... It just doesn't work...

Listen carefully, my friend...  :rofl:



Does cryoing of tubes matter more with preamp or driver tubes vs. Power tubes? Also is there a location on LI or place where I can have existing tubes cryoed? I bought some power tubes that I like with my gear that I may want cryoed.

I've only "cryo'd" small signal tubes (preamp / buffer) & there's definitely a difference. The extremes (highs & lows) are extended a bit & the midrange a bit more palpable (for the tubes I've cryo'd). I'm afraid to cryo my vintage triodes (2A3, 300B, 50, 45, 10, 10Y) and vintage dual octal triodes (6SL7 & 6SN7)... they sound way too good to begin with...

I use a cryogenic vendor in New England for all my cables & tubes... their QC & experience is fantastic... PM me if you want to add some of your tubes into my next "cryo" shipment.

Cheers,
Pete
www.TriodeWireLabs.com
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Offline rollo

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2013, 07:10:16 AM »
   Cryoing does make a difference in sonics for tubes. speaker cables as well. Pete had our Lenehan copper ribbons cryoed to compare to non cryoed version.
   The cryoed pair was smoother and more dynamic. The non cryoed pair in direct comparison sounded Hi fi.
    Tubes the Electro Haminox 6H30 gold pin sounds much more linear and natural after cryo treatment. So far good results with tubes and speaker cables.  The Reflector 6H30DR is superior even without cryo. Maybe time to cryo one pair.
   The Alan Maher devices have been slowly removed then added
again and now finalized in my setup.
   Before the TWL cords used were non crystal models. Then with AM on circuit breaker, wire bundle and final duplex outlet box. Sounded open, dynamic and natural.
    Now using TWL plus cords for amps [ fed off uberbuss] and CDP [ fed off another Ubrbuss ]. The cords to the Ubers are cryo only no crystal. TWL cord to QOL 8 cryo, and non cryoed TWL [ plain Jane ] hardwired into preamp power supplies.
  If one is using both TWL plus and Alan Maher together experiment for best results and you may be happier with a different combo of such. Have fun trying.


charles
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Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2013, 07:55:44 AM »
I found this 2 year old thread about cryoing tubes and thought it was appropriate for this thread.

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2978.15

I like how cryoing was mentioned as prolonging the lives of tubes in this older thread.

I'm going to try to get some power tubes cryoed as well as preamp tubes and see what will happen to the sound. I found others who stated that JAN GE 6550 tubes as well as the JAN GE 5751 and 12AT7 really improve with Cryo treatment.

Offline rollo

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2013, 07:08:01 AM »
    Well Sovtek 6H30s that are cryoed made a tremendous difference with the Arion Amps.
   They beat out the EH gold pins and are very close to the 6H30DRs for a lot less money.
   


charles
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Offline BobM

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 09:11:49 AM »
I had some nice NOS 6DJ8/6922's in my preamp, then picked up some NOS 7DJ8's (compatible with the 6DJ8 but far less $) and liked them better. Then got some inexpensive Russian "Rocket Logo" 6922's. They sounded pretty damn nice but still were somewhat rough compared to the 7DJ8's.

Had a pair of the Rocket's cryo'ed and after break in they are smoother and more extended and generally better all around than any of the others. There was a break in period after the cryo though where they sounded not so good.
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Russian_Glass

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Re: Cryoing and Crystals
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 12:13:26 PM »
I had some nice NOS 6DJ8/6922's in my preamp, then picked up some NOS 7DJ8's (compatible with the 6DJ8 but far less $) and liked them better. Then got some inexpensive Russian "Rocket Logo" 6922's. They sounded pretty damn nice but still were somewhat rough compared to the 7DJ8's.

Had a pair of the Rocket's cryo'ed and after break in they are smoother and more extended and generally better all around than any of the others. There was a break in period after the cryo though where they sounded not so good.
Sorry to "kick a dead horse", but...

Any difference you hear between the 6DJ8 and the 7DJ8's are probably attributable to the difference in brand and/or manufacture date as they EXACTLY THE SAME TUBE with (slightly) different filament voltages.  Do be careful, as the 7dJ8's will not achieve full emission on 6.3V (it would be like running your 6DJ8's on 5.29V; most likely, not a problem, but in some circuits...), but will LAST longer as a result.
As far as the "Russian rocket" (Voskhod's logo) 6922's are concerned:
Voskhod (and most Russian factories) have two equivalents to the 6DJ8 (or 6922) the 6N2П which is pretty close, albeit with slightly higher Rp and slightly less Ik capability, and the (preferable) 6N23П, which actually has (slightly) HIGHER current capability than the DJ8's (and a virtually identical plate resistance).  If you can find the pre-1980's Svetlana (Winged 'C') version of those, they will still cost less than a quality NOS 6DJ8 and should blow them out of the water.