Author Topic: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM  (Read 2193 times)

Offline steve

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2019, 09:07:06 AM »
Lamm would be better with a few modifications. Their potentiometers are trash, for example.


Really, stepped TKD  trash ? It is the whole sum of parts not one part. With no more than .03% distortion overall, that .03% must be the TKD then.  :duh BTW both Kondo and Audio Note use them as well.

charles

I agree Charles, TKDs are great, whether stepped or not. Nobles are also excellent. My 11A used both Nobles and TKDs and the output was a perfect reproduction of the input signal via special setup listening tests, so obviously there were no problems with the TKDs or Noble volume controls. Advantage is continous adjustment as well.

DeHavilland Ultra verve was also a near perfect preamplifier (don't know the NOS tubes she was using though). Herron is also a superior quality preamplifier. One would be wise to strongly consider these.

--------

If I can tout my own products, such as the 10A line preamplifier, which was one of only three listed in the Bound for Sound "Components of Merit". Here is what Rich Weiner (BFS) had to say.

Rich Weiner: "The SAS 10A is the most musically truthful preamp I'm aware of, and I will expand that statement by listing some of the line stages I've had in my otherwise very stable system: Herron VTSP-1, VAC CPA III, VAC Standard LE, Audio Research 3A, ARC 8, ARC 10, Mark Levinson ML-1, Levinson ML-7, Levinson ML-10A, Original Aronov PS-100 and Musical Concepts modification, Nagra PL-P, Beveridge RM-1, Rappaport, Placette Passive - there are more, but you get the point. Until I got the 10A, I struggled to make the other components live up to their potential."

He used 15 grand 300b monoblocks.

The 10A has been Rich's reference preamp for over 4 years. In fact, he was able to hear the recording studio wall reflections in some recordings which he had never heard before. I was there and saw his and his wife's amazement. That is true inner detail, not artificial by using distortion.

However, Richard and Martin both purchased 11A preamplifiers as their reference preamplifier, and still have them because they were so perfect. By the way Bound for Sound took no advertising.

Here are a couple of other personal reviews of the 11A.

Graham: "I took the B11a into a shop in Auckland. I know the owner fairly well, and we agree that Shindo make some wonderful pieces of kit. (I wasn't looking for a change!) Almost immediately we started listening, he said "That's really fast!" We also agreed that the B11a was much clearer, making the Shindo Aurieges sound slow, muddy, and coloured."

Bob: "Hey guys. . .if anyone's interested, I'm selling my Tram 2 preamp since my SAS B11A is so awesome...." (Tram 2 uses 45, 2A3s)

Oh, the 10A was going for $1895.00 and the 11A was going for $2995.00, so no breaking of the bank. Very rarely, I have seen used 10A for $800.00, if you can find one for sale.

Cheers

steve
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 11:57:41 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (retired, but manufacturing "V" ics again)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Reference Preamplifier
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Reference Amplifier
Test Spkrs
"V" ICs
10 parallel 18 ga. speaker wires

Offline rollo

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2019, 09:10:33 AM »
  Steve, in with great company. Never heard your Preamp however have certainly heard of IT. Good is as good does.


charles
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Offline steve

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2019, 09:35:13 AM »
  Steve, in with great company. Never heard your Preamp however have certainly heard of IT. Good is as good does.

charles

Charley, except my 11A is near perfect reproduction of the signal in all aspects. The others can't say that, only approximations.

Bernie: "I have also tested the 11A in terms of comparing the sound from my excellent cd source directly to amps versus inserting the 11A pre between. I could detect no difference whatsoever.... So, my two cents: the SAS preamps are stellar Ė with my 11A I hear no compression or any other alteration of the originating signal."

That is why one virtually never sees a used one of mine for sale. Mine also has a variable control so the preamplifier matches to the different amplifier input impedances (Z), down to 25k ohms amplifier input Z.

By contrast, other preamplifiers will either become bass heavy or bass light, depending upon the amplifier's input Z.

Mine is the only preamplifier that alleviates the problem.

Others do have me beat on aesthetics though. But if a $50,000 preamplifier doesn't sound right, that is a lot of money for some looks. But to each his own.

cheers

steve

« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 03:40:26 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (retired, but manufacturing "V" ics again)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Reference Preamplifier
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Reference Amplifier
Test Spkrs
"V" ICs
10 parallel 18 ga. speaker wires

Offline P.I.

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2019, 10:09:25 AM »
Geez, do you 2 need a room to have a slap fight?

I'd love to own any of these units, but being unemployed precludes any new purchases.

  Nah Pete and I just having some fun. He is a teaser and great friend. No harm.


charles
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"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline steve

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2019, 03:47:52 PM »
One other comment that I think needs addressing.

How many times have you heard that accuracy was not emotional? Ok, so when was the last time you heard a live instrument/band/event that was not emotional? Yet it was accurate because you were there.
 
Accurate was first used to describe how solid state sounded years ago. But we all know that listening to a live instrument/band is "accurate" and emotional. So they were describing the problems of solid state at that time.

So if you want emotion, either listen to live music, or a system that accurately reproduces those emotions, live instruments/band/event. You will be glad you did.

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 03:49:24 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (retired, but manufacturing "V" ics again)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Reference Preamplifier
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Reference Amplifier
Test Spkrs
"V" ICs
10 parallel 18 ga. speaker wires

Offline mresseguie

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2019, 06:58:32 PM »
Steve,

I Ďdiscoveredí your preamps a good six months to a year before I bought my D Sachs Model 2. If you had still been offering them for sale, I would have been an owner. Iíll likely never know which is better - and Iím delighted with the Model 2 - but I do wonder about the 11A.

Michael
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Don Sachs Model 2
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Offline steve

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2019, 10:26:55 AM »
Steve,

I 'discoveredí your preamps a good six months to a year before I bought my D Sachs Model 2. If you had still been offering them for sale, I would have been an owner. Iíll likely never know which is better - and Iím delighted with the Model 2 - but I do wonder about the 11A.

Michael


Hi Michael,

One thing I can say with certainty is that since the 11A is perfect; the 11A would have soundly beat it in virtually all catagories, piece compared to piece. Yes, I retired some 7 years ago now. Thank you for considering Michael.

Since the 11A is completely transparent, not there so to speak, the rest of one's system dictates the overall sound. The decision then becomes if one is satisfied with the sound of their existing system, or to purchase a preamplifier in an attempting synergy to their system.

Of course, cost and aesthetics are variables to deal with.

Some years ago I participated in the Detroit AudioKarma AudioFest, along with some 45-50 other manufacturers. My room was the only one with standing room only. Some came back 3-4 times. I personally checked all the other rooms multiple times, while Barry (from Tennessee who helped out at his own expense. Owned my 11A.) took care of my room. The other rooms were virtually bare, with just one or two, if any.

A reviewer from St. Louis, who wrote for Positive Feedback, stayed in my room for an hour and wanted to write a complete review of my 11A. He only visited the AudioFest for one day, so spent a vast amount of time in my room.
I had another individual who spent the whole evening listening in the room, even though he had his own demonstration room.

Anyway, I am sorry I could not help you at that time Michael. (For others, when they hear, they believe.)

Cheers Michael and all the best.

steve
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 11:18:33 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (retired, but manufacturing "V" ics again)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Reference Preamplifier
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Reference Amplifier
Test Spkrs
"V" ICs
10 parallel 18 ga. speaker wires

Offline Nick B

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2019, 07:46:48 PM »
Steve,

I 'discoveredí your preamps a good six months to a year before I bought my D Sachs Model 2. If you had still been offering them for sale, I would have been an owner. Iíll likely never know which is better - and Iím delighted with the Model 2 - but I do wonder about the 11A.

Michael


Hi Michael,

One thing I can say with certainty is that since the 11A is perfect; the 11A would have soundly beat it in virtually all catagories, piece compared to piece. Yes, I retired some 7 years ago now. Thank you for considering Michael.

Since the 11A is completely transparent, not there so to speak, the rest of one's system dictates the overall sound. The decision then becomes if one is satisfied with the sound of their existing system, or to purchase a preamplifier in an attempting synergy to their system.

Of course, cost and aesthetics are variables to deal with.

Some years ago I participated in the Detroit AudioKarma AudioFest, along with some 45-50 other manufacturers. My room was the only one with standing room only. Some came back 3-4 times. I personally checked all the other rooms multiple times, while Barry (from Tennessee who helped out at his own expense. Owned my 11A.) took care of my room. The other rooms were virtually bare, with just one or two, if any.

A reviewer from St. Louis, who wrote for Positive Feedback, stayed in my room for an hour and wanted to write a complete review of my 11A. He only visited the AudioFest for one day, so spent a vast amount of time in my room.
I had another individual who spent the whole evening listening in the room, even though he had his own demonstration room.

Anyway, I am sorry I could not help you at that time Michael. (For others, when they hear, they believe.)

Cheers Michael and all the best.

steve

Steve,
I think itís quite a compliment to you that Iíve never seen a used 11A for sale  :thumb:
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
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Offline Folsom

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2019, 10:05:49 PM »
Few have seen a new one for sale either!

Offline Nick B

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2019, 07:48:32 AM »
Having been a reader of Marty DeWulfís Bound for Sound for many years....starting in the
early 90s iirc.... I became aware of the 11A many years ago and itís listing as a Component of Exceptional Merit. Marty had a loyal following and I thought his reviews were thorough,  thoughtful and well-respected.
As I go back to those days, there were indeed new ones for sale....
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline steve

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2019, 10:17:30 AM »
Absolutely correct Nick. I designed and manufactured preamplifiers until 2012 or 13. I certainly did not need to come out with new models year after year, like other designers, because my preamplifiers were so perfect. Thank you for the support Nick.

I deleted my response Nick.

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 12:43:32 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (retired, but manufacturing "V" ics again)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Reference Preamplifier
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Reference Amplifier
Test Spkrs
"V" ICs
10 parallel 18 ga. speaker wires

Offline Nick B

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2019, 12:19:17 PM »
OK, I think Iíve had enough of these exchanges. This forum is supposed to be a fun place for interesting exchanges of opinions and information and just a fun place to hang out. I got out of management years ago and donít want to be the administrative police here. Iíve known of Steve and SAS for well over 20 years. I know Folsom (Jeremy) from his posts here and over at AC. Iíve heard many positive comments about his products and I believe Dave speaks very highly of him as well.
So itís great you guys are both here. But I donít want this place to become a host for pissing matches. So cease and desist
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline Nick B

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2019, 01:02:26 PM »
A previous post has been voluntarily modified, which I appreciate.
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2019, 01:34:28 PM »
Cool, Nick!!!




Having fun,
Pete
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Offline James Edward

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Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2019, 01:55:57 PM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mYKWch_MNY0

Itís Hard To Be Humble by Mac Davis... Continuing Peteís theme.