Author Topic: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question  (Read 516 times)

Offline rollo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 5532
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« on: December 09, 2018, 08:21:35 AM »
   Do we really need this fuse if; Using a Power conditioner with a circuit breaker or at all ? All the effort in making fancy aftermarket fuses still leaves us with a tiny fusible link throttling the incoming electricity.
   So why cannot we just remove fuse all together ? Or insert a 10ga wire in lieu of fuse.



charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 8981
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2018, 03:35:28 PM »
The purpose of the fuse in a component is to protect it from damage if it starts to pull too much current. The fuse  in the power conditioner is designed to protect the conditioner and is rated to handle the max load that the conditioner is rated to handle. But this is the sum of all loads put on the conditioner. This will not necessarily protect the individual components themselves.

it would not be uncommon for a power conditioner to have a breaker rated at 15 amps, the max of the outlet it is plugged into. It will usually also have several outlets.  powering multiple components, which by definition would each have to draw less than  15 amps.

Let's for example look at my Audio Research SP-9 preamp. The SP-9 has a 6/10th of am amp power fuse in it. This means that ARC has determined that the preamp could sustain significant damage if something caused it to draw more than o0.6 amps from the wall. The 15 amp breaker in a power conditioner will do virtually nothing to protect a component that can sustain damage at 0.6 amps.

Electricity is very dangerous stuff that is only made safe to use by the safety systems designed into the things that use it. Things like fuses and chassis grounds are put there for the protection of the users. Disabling any of them put your equipment, no matter what it does to the sound puts your equipment and the safety of you , your home and your family at risk. I cringe every time somebody starts talking about it.

If anyone out there thinks that the possible increase in sound quality is worth that kind of risk is worth it, God Bless.

I personally think that messing with any of the electric safety systems in our equipment is a fool hardy and irresponsible thing to do.

Rant over.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Bluesound Node/Pioneer DV 563A
• DigiBuss/TWL PC/MIT Cable

Offline P.I.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 594
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2018, 02:44:27 PM »
   Do we really need this fuse if; Using a Power conditioner with a circuit breaker or at all ? All the effort in making fancy aftermarket fuses still leaves us with a tiny fusible link throttling the incoming electricity.
   So why cannot we just remove fuse all together ? Or insert a 10ga wire in lieu of fuse.



charles
Don't screw with voltages that can and WILL kill you.  I run some pieces of gear without fuses that normal people would not because I understand the ramifications of what current+voltage will do to  human tissue and the brain.  I used to work with voltages in the 1,000,000 range (at diminishingly small currents) and you learn to have a tremendous respect when you see an arc that is 3' long strike a human being.  Frignhtening.  Talk about teach out an touch someone!  We had a warning sign on one of our implants that read:  "Reaching out and touching YOU!".

If someone chooses to be stupid, get 1/4" copper tubing from the big box store and use it.  One of the best tweaks ever for Maggies.  Polish it up and use a contact enhancer and SMG's all of a sudden sound MUCH better.

Just sayin'.

I use fusible links in the UberBUSSes.
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 8981
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2018, 08:27:17 PM »
Yes, but let's all keep in mind that the fuses inn a pair of Maggies are in the signal path and not fusing a direct connection to commercial power.

That makes them a very different animal from a safety point of view.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Sumiko Blue Pt. Special
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Bluesound Node/Pioneer DV 563A
• DigiBuss/TWL PC/MIT Cable

Offline P.I.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 594
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2018, 11:20:07 PM »
Yes, but let's all keep in mind that the fuses inn a pair of Maggies are in the signal path and not fusing a direct connection to commercial power.

That makes them a very different animal from a safety point of view.
Yup.  When it comes to low voltage going sans fuse means something very different from high current AC.  120/250 VAC is NOT to be trifled with in the context of safety. 

Be be vewwy, vewwy caweful!
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline rollo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 5532
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 07:07:27 AM »
  Thanks guys.

charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline _Scotty_

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
  • “Sic transit gloria mundi”
Re: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2018, 01:23:58 PM »
The way I see it, fuses can save loudspeaker driver but when present in a component connected to the 120v AC they are there to help mitigate the danger of fire.
 As for Maggies, if there is no fuse present and the amp #!&*s the bed the speaker is quite likely to be toast. I always bypassed the fuses in mine with a very good cap and said good enough.
Scotty

Offline Folsom

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
Re: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 05:48:28 PM »
If something is rated over the ampere of the breaker, the fuse becomes a bit moot. But it also better be safety grounded.

For example I don't necessarily expect people to use an overall fuse in my Fo-Felix's stuffed into a box if they are running 15/20A (17/20A CMC) and the smaller ones have fuses built in. Some things are just glorified power strips (that don't have fuses, you might say.

You can also put breakers in devices.

Offline BobM

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3128
Re: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2018, 05:11:19 PM »
Don't mess with the fuse except to maybe clean it. It's there for a reason and is not worth tempting fate with a potential fire hazard and loss of far more of your home for a wee bit better sound.
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and you'll have to blow your nose.

Offline rollo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 5532
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: To Fuse or Not to Fuse is The Question
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2018, 08:43:21 AM »
If something is rated over the ampere of the breaker, the fuse becomes a bit moot. But it also better be safety grounded.

For example I don't necessarily expect people to use an overall fuse in my Fo-Felix's stuffed into a box if they are running 15/20A (17/20A CMC) and the smaller ones have fuses built in. Some things are just glorified power strips (that don't have fuses, you might say.

You can also put breakers in devices.


  Breakers , now were talking. Gigawatt breakers that is. No tiny fusible link to throttle that electricity.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion