Author Topic: Some Resistor Comparisons  (Read 236 times)

Offline steve

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
    • Reference components
Some Resistor Comparisons
« on: September 17, 2018, 02:06:43 PM »
Here is a link to some resistor comparisons performed by Martin Coloms and High Fi News and Record Review.
Although not every brand or type of resistor was tested, some familiar brands are.

Left out are Mills non inductive wire wounds, Caddock films, tantalums etc.

http://www.sasaudiolabs.com/resistor.htm

cheers

steve
Steve Sammet (retired, but manufacturing "V" ics again)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Preamp
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Amp
Test Spkrs
"V" ICs
10 parallel 18 ga. speaker wires

Offline rollo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 5363
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: Some Resistor Comparisons
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2018, 02:45:01 PM »
 Thanks Steve. Interesting read.

charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline Nick B

  • Administrator
  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
Re: Some Resistor Comparisons
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2018, 08:20:39 PM »
Here is a link to some resistor comparisons performed by Martin Coloms and High Fi News and Record Review.
Although not every brand or type of resistor was tested, some familiar brands are.

Left out are Mills non inductive wire wounds, Caddock films, tantalums etc.

http://www.sasaudiolabs.com/resistor.htm

cheers

steve

Have you done similar tests over the years?
Nck
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline gander

  • Seeking Help
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Insanity is doing the same Audio thing over & over
Re: Some Resistor Comparisons
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 08:57:41 AM »
Here is a link to some resistor comparisons performed by Martin Coloms and High Fi News and Record Review.
Although not every brand or type of resistor was tested, some familiar brands are.

Left out are Mills non inductive wire wounds, Caddock films, tantalums etc.

http://www.sasaudiolabs.com/resistor.htm

cheers

steve

Have you done similar tests over the years?
Nck

Good point. I had a longer post but I hit the wrong key and it went away. Grrrrrrrr...

It seems like they swapped out only resistors of each type and did some subjective critical listening tests, which I think is really the only thing that counts.
10) VSRJ, 0.25W, 0.01% bulk-foil, by Vishay
36k: 36.02, 36.02, 100 ohms: 100.05, 100.06
Sound 94%: an unmistakeably [sic] large step nearer to no resistor at all. Clear, tonally balanced, fine depth, negligible aberration.


Such as this one.

Has anyone proven a direct and consistent correlation between "better" spec'd parts and better sound?  It seems SAS Audio Labs did, to get the rating and subjective evaluation.  But that is just taking their word for it, and the only way to really know differences is to do it yourself and see.

Has anyone here have direct experience with this kind of thing, besides myself?

Thanks, Gary



Oppo 103, SSD drive
GanderWire ultra low capacitance power cords, ICs and speaker cables
Audio Note 2.1B DAC
Tortuga LDR passive pre
Primaluna Dialogue4 Tube, Temple Audio Bantam SS amp
GW speakers w/Audio Nirvana 12” Alnico FR drivers

Offline HAL

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Audio Mad Scientist
    • Hollis Audio Labs
Re: Some Resistor Comparisons
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2018, 09:15:23 AM »
I have used both the Vishay S102K series and Texas Components naked bulk metal foil resistors for feedback loops in amps and had excellent results.  Typically the 0.1% types to have good matching between channels.

The Dale/Vishay metal film brown body resistors are good as well from my other amp projects.

Offline gander

  • Seeking Help
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Insanity is doing the same Audio thing over & over
Re: Some Resistor Comparisons
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 11:07:05 AM »
I have used both the Vishay S102K series and Texas Components naked bulk metal foil resistors for feedback loops in amps and had excellent results.  Typically the 0.1% types to have good matching between channels.

The Dale/Vishay metal film brown body resistors are good as well from my other amp projects.

Excellent! That's exactly the kind of thing I meant. I love specific examples. Thanks for that.

And this goes to the "upgrades" offered on some high end gear with pricey "better" parts. Two problems with that: first, you don't really know how much difference that upgrade will make to your ears. And then, how do you recapture the cost of the upgrades when selling the gear? Nobody will pay much more for upgrades in second hand gear. But still I have been a sucker for the upgrade.  :-P

I believe that cables and wire are the most important first upgrade a person should get, and then see what their gear sounds like and go on from there.  I have personally heard very positive differences because of a power cord or different interconnects, and only then I could hear more of the potential of that amplifier and speakers.


« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 11:14:07 AM by gander »
Oppo 103, SSD drive
GanderWire ultra low capacitance power cords, ICs and speaker cables
Audio Note 2.1B DAC
Tortuga LDR passive pre
Primaluna Dialogue4 Tube, Temple Audio Bantam SS amp
GW speakers w/Audio Nirvana 12” Alnico FR drivers

Offline steve

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
    • Reference components
Re: Some Resistor Comparisons
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2018, 12:25:26 PM »
Well, I am up for a little while, still somewhat but getting better from the cold.

Yes, Nick, I have performed some similar testing when designing my 10A, and 11A line preamplifiers some decades ago. I used the results when designing my SET amps, and PP amplifiers.

Besides sonic testing, I had to also consider, resistance value/construction, dissipation rating, and even voltage rating. This for maximum durability and minimal breakdowns.

Capacitors deviate, sonically, much more than resistors. And due to physical construction details vs value of capacitance, what may be accurate in one value may not be accurate at another value.

The above may not make sense, but consider that a larger value coupling capacitor can sound leaner than a smaller value capacitor, due to length to width ratio differences.

-------

I was not able to obtain perfect accuracy in my 11A preamplifier until I used the more accurate sounding parts. I had thought the 10A was perfect, but found slight differences in output vs input via special, proprietary listening tests.
I am all for it, setup a special rig and obtain your own conclusions.

That is why one rarely ever sees a 10A or 11A up for sale. Why change?

-------

When I see the need for rolling different power cords, that indicates to me that the power supply is not designed properly. I guess you could say that my preamplifiers have built in conditioners to absolutely minimize power cord influences. But that costs money. But it also means that the power transformer, rectifiers have no effect on sound as well.

My PP amps are not absolutely perfect since physical size was a little limiting. However, power cords still have minimal effect.

My ICs have also been listening tested, via special arrangements, for accuracy in absolute terms.

The result is a vertical type system, where I designed the phono stage, preamplifier stage, amplifier, speakers, interconnect cables, and speaker wires. No need for me to roll power cords, although I had to test, when designing, and no difference occurred.

I have the speaker xovers to the point that I am adjusting the zobel resistance by several millionths of an ohm, and  clearly perceivable.

The result is a reproduction that is absolutely astounding to me, and others. However, I have to remember that the recording is 50%, half, of all the electronics used from recording thru playback. So quality of recording is extremely important, and often questionable.

Another thought, when testing the 11A, I might go through 20 cds, and finally find one song that the 11A was slightly off. So I had to tweek the 11A, and recheck the entire cd collection again.

The point is that some songs are more critical, and better for checking accuracy than other songs.

cheers

steve



« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 03:19:56 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (retired, but manufacturing "V" ics again)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Preamp
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Amp
Test Spkrs
"V" ICs
10 parallel 18 ga. speaker wires

Offline Nick B

  • Administrator
  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
Re: Some Resistor Comparisons
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2018, 01:38:59 PM »
I continue to find this discussion so fascinating. I don’t have the means, patience and probably the hearing to discern those differences....and sometimes they are very, very small. When I read the incredible detail of Steve’s posts versus what I feel is the haphazard design of some manufacturers, it makes me appreciate those who make the effort 👍
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline steve

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
    • Reference components
Re: Some Resistor Comparisons
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 03:32:47 PM »
I continue to find this discussion so fascinating. I don’t have the means, patience and probably the hearing to discern those differences....and sometimes they are very, very small. When I read the incredible detail of Steve’s posts versus what I feel is the haphazard design of some manufacturers, it makes me appreciate those who make the effort 👍

Thank you Nick. An audiophile/music lover friend of mine, Dan, and I am sure you, are just as discerning, would notice the changes. It is mainly tonal, frequency response changes but affects depth, width, dynamics etc as well. Its the little details that can make or break a design.

I will say that I started into audio in 1977, and researched for 20 years before I offered my first preamplifier.

Listening testing could not be subjective, just connecting to a system and listening. There had to be a way to qualify, via listening, if the output was the same as the input. A special listening setup was needed to make sure the output was exactly the same as the input. Same applies for parts as well. Otherwise, just another subjective listening evaluation. So far, the 11A appears to be perfect, or extremely close. I need to check mine and see if any changes have occurred over some years.

That brings back memories, I was young then, but now don't have the same ambition. I kinda wonder what will happen to my circuit designs once I am gone. (The circuit designs, schematics, are copyrighted. I could sell the rights if I wanted to, I guess to keep the perfect 11A available.)

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 09:29:23 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (retired, but manufacturing "V" ics again)

SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Preamp
SAS Audio 25 W Triode Amp
Test Spkrs
"V" ICs
10 parallel 18 ga. speaker wires