Author Topic: Do I need a poweramp?  (Read 390 times)

Offline Ita0101

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Do I need a poweramp?
« on: August 04, 2018, 02:29:56 PM »
Hi,
I'm about to start build soon Jeff Bagby Adelphos speakers and I want to upgrade my amplification after it.

This is my system now:
Elipson Studio Pro bookshelf speakers
Denon AVR-X2400H
OLED TV
PC (Tidal)
SVS SB2000
Acoustic panels

I had Yamaha AS-501 before the Denon and I really like it for its price. The Denon is harsh with my speakers and less detailed compare to the AS-501.

If I understand correctly, I need a power amp to keep the Denon for HT uses?

Any recommendation for price range and brands I could buy internationally would be appreciated.

The next upgrade will be the source.


Thanks,

Itamar.

 :thumb:

Offline rollo

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 08:28:10 AM »
  I take it the Denon has an option to use as a preamp only [ 2ch] with an outboard amp. First question SS or tubed ? Second, budget ?
If possible consider an integrated amp for stereo and just use Denon for HT. You will get a much better preamp section for [2] ch. and amp in one enclosure.
  I like Audio Hungary products.   


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline mresseguie

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2018, 10:29:01 PM »
Hi, Itamar.

Rollo (Charles) is right to ask about your budget. We could offer 25 suggestions, but if they're all too expensive, it would be a wasted effort.

That said, I have found with my Adelphos:

1. My Nuprime IDA-8 ($995 USD) does a decent job of powering them. The IDA-8 is 100W/ch, has a DAC and preamp all in one compact unit. It's a keeper for my office system. However, my speakers do not shine with this amp. They sound okay though.
2. Folsom's Little Chip amp (forget how many watts...25/ch??). My Apelphos sound almost tube-like when they're powered by this amp. You buy it from Folsom (Jeremy) as a kit. It's very inexpensive. You'll still need to buy a DAC/preamp. It's very impressive for such a small amp.
3. I also own a Nuprime ST-10 amp ($1600??) (150w/ch). This is a very nice sounding amp the allows my Adelphos to shine. You'll need a separate DAC/preamp.
4. I do not own this, but a Nuprime IDA-16 has 200w/ch and a better DAC/preamp than the IDA-8 ($2000??)
5. My Don Sachs Kootenay120 KT88 tube amplifier makes my Adelphos sing in six languages and seduce the angriest neighbor. It is my 'amp to die for' ($3400). Hell, all of my speakers sound amazing powered by this amplifier. I still must pinch myself to make sure I'm not dreaming.
6. IceEdge 1200as2 amplifier (price varies, but approximately $1800 USD). Class D amp that sounds a lot like my tube amp. Up to 600w/ch! It's the wave of the future, I think. I believe there is an IceEdge 1200as2 amplifier dealer in Italy. [I'll ask a friend who knows for sure.]

Except for the IDA-16, I own all of the above mentioned amplifiers. My very first amp was a $600 Denon AVR that sounded like garbage. It didn't matter which speakers were powered by the AVR, they all sounded horrible. It was a $600 lesson on what not to do.

Good luck with your search, and have fun along the way. This is a great hobby.

Michael
Daedalus Audio Apollos Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
Gustard X20u DAC
dB Audio Labs Tranquility SE DAC w/Jupiter Caps
Don Sachs Model 2
Don Sachs Kootenay 120 KT88; Nuprime ST-10
TWL loom
PI Audio UberBUSS, DigiBUSS, Uber-MiniBUSS
PI Audio USB cable
Mac Mini

Offline Nick B

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 09:28:48 AM »
I have an ICE 1200as2 amp that is excellent. Accurate, dynamic, lightning fast and performs at a level far above the price point. 

https://www.rougeaudiodesign.com/1200as-en
https://www.apollonaudio.com/apollon-audio-as1200-class-d-ice-power-based-amplifier/
https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/icepower
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline rollo

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2018, 07:35:35 AM »
  Being in the EU check out Audio Hungary Qualiton line.  The APX 200 [100W/ch] amplifier and APR 204 preamp. Lector in Italy makes some fine gear as well.
  For Class "D" IMHO hybrid is the answer . Meaning a tube input and class "D" output. The Arion HS500 using a 6H30 input tube and in house designed class"D" module is one to hear.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion

Offline Ita0101

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 01:14:49 PM »
Michael, Charles and Nick - Thanks for your answers.
I had really busy time and I just now I have the time to finish the Adelphos and thinking about amps.


I understand that integrated amp is the way to go, but if I will purchase one additionally to the Denon, I will get lazy to hook the Denon every time I watch Netflix or movies in the weekend.
I might sell the Denon, its really nice on movies but I don't have much time to watch movies since I'm about to start learning (college) soon.

My budget now is around 500$, I think I will save more 500$ and try to sell the Denon before attempting to purchase something.


Thanks!

Offline Nick B

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2018, 06:08:42 PM »
Michael, Charles and Nick - Thanks for your answers.
I had really busy time and I just now I have the time to finish the Adelphos and thinking about amps.


I understand that integrated amp is the way to go, but if I will purchase one additionally to the Denon, I will get lazy to hook the Denon every time I watch Netflix or movies in the weekend.
I might sell the Denon, its really nice on movies but I don't have much time to watch movies since I'm about to start learning (college) soon.

My budget now is around 500$, I think I will save more 500$ and try to sell the Denon before attempting to purchase something.


Thanks!

Thanks for the update 👍
ICEpower 1200as2 stereo amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
KEF LS 50 speakers
Border Patrol SE dac
Auralic Aries Mini
Roon & Tidal
Don Sachs phono
Basis Ovation turntable
Graham 1.5 T tonearm
AT-ML150 cartridge
PI Audio Uber
All cables by Gary A

Offline Ita0101

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 01:05:39 PM »
I might keep the Denon and try to find an intergrated amp with ht by-pass.
Can some one explain me how it works?
Can I use it without any disadvantage?

Does amp like Rega Elicit / Naim 5si can work well with the Adelphos?
They have good retails here in Israel.
I found Lector ZAX 60 used in 1000$ (sounds expensive for it value?)

Offline djdube525

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2018, 03:36:42 AM »
My budget now is around 500$, I think I will save more 500$ and try to sell the Denon before attempting to purchase something.

Is DIY an option? Are you by chance handy with a soldering iron?

If not, and you are in the US, I'd suggest checking out https://www.accessories4less.com/ for refurbished items... some that come close to that budget that may be worth investigating (smidge over your budget)

Marantz 7025 (2x140W) @ $600
Yamaha S801 (2x100W) @ $600 (sounds like you liked the S501, a couple steps up the Yamaha line - gets solid reviews - comes w/a DAC if you need one)






Offline Ita0101

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2018, 02:23:45 PM »
I'm out of US and used Yamaha are bit expensive where I live (Israel).
DIY can be an option - Do you have a kit suggestion.
I like Yamaha sounds compares to Denon..

Offline rollo

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Re: Do I need a poweramp?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2018, 08:30:29 AM »
For DIY Audio Note kits are just awesome. The Lector is a VG piece. Have owned their products. $500 is a stretch for a quality Amp.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - Furutech - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz Carrera speakers -Gigawatt-Arion